To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

The way to deal with it, in my view, would be to retain all existing CS workers on their existing pension arrangements (i.e. a DB scheme, be that final salary or career average). All new entrants, should be paid a salary comparable to private sector equivalents, but on a DC pension scheme.

Please tell me the Brexit department still employing tens of thousands of people, five years after Brexit?

Agree! There was a pay freeze from 2010-2013 then a 1% cap which was lifted in 2018 but reinstated in 2021-22. High inflation since then has led to higher rises but certainly not enough to outstrip COL rises!

1. Public sector pensions are no longer final salary.
2. As a public sector worker I've not had a pay rise which has been anywhere close to inflation in the last 15 years, and didn't get one at all for at least 5 of those.
3. Contributions are a % of salary...salaries which are generally lower than private sector so are relative.
4. Not all public sector bodies are funded by tax payers. My employer isn't.
5. I also pay taxes same as everyone else.

Can someone give me some real examples of pay that is lower in the public sector than the exact equivalent in the private sector.
It's bandied about a lot, but I have never seen any evidence, like for like, that this is the case.
I know a lot of jobs are not a thing in the private sector, so comparison is impossible, but I've seen examples such as a local authority solicitor saying they could earn three times as much in the private sector (as long as they moved to the other side of the UK and went up several rungs of the ladder), which isn't helpful, as a direct comparison would be more like a conveyancing solicitor in a small practice, which would command a similar salary to the local authority one.
I know in my profession, although there is no direct equivalent in the public sector, people who have moved over to local councils to do a role within their knowledge always command higher salaries and would have to have a couple of promotions in my job to reach that salary level.

My DH has never got a bonus on his life in the private sector. Neither did my dad in a 40+ year career. It’s nonsense to think all private sector employees are getting huge salaries and huge bonuses.

Having worked in the public and private sector I know that is not true for all employees. There are plenty of people in the private sector that are on similar salaries to the public sector or lower plus they get tiny pension contributions and only SSP.

There are some issues with skilled professionals, such as law. I know that a legal colleague was in the same banding as someone who was basically doing admin and had no qualifications other than a few GCSEs. That’s why there are so few public sector lawyers left and many local authorities have to spend huge amounts of money engaging outside law firms. The salary scales need to be revisited but it wouldn’t necessarily cost any additional
money. If they paid solicitors properly they wouldn’t have to spend huge amounts of money on external legal advice.

The size of public sector should be slashed, full stop.

The UK economy has a productivity crisis and the bloated public sector is only making it worse. More than 50% of all spending in this country is by the government. Just think about that. That effectively means that less than half the spending is by private businesses that actually create wealth and hold the economy up.

There are more pen pushers in the MoD than there are front line soldiers.

The NHS has never been bigger or more inefficient.

Civil service departments like Brexit still employ tens of thousands of people. Five years after Brexit.

The public sector is stuffed full of Mickey Mouse jobs and cronies. It needs cutting down to size. Radically.

Exactly, and add on bonuses too

The pension is the only reason I still work in the public sector I would be earning more in the private sector and wouldn't be helping people for free anymore. The public sector needs to do more to hang onto its good workers not less.
Also, we don't get bonuses like you do.

@boohoo76 The private sector employee can pay in 28 percent if they wish. Nothing stopping them so long as its under the annual limit which is about 40k i think.

Theyll probably still take home more than the Public Sector worker.

The contributions would need to be decreased for new joiners. 20-28% is not reasonable when most private sector employees are getting 3-5%. 10% is more reasonable.

And I’m quite aware that they would need to go into a ring fenced pot. That’s exactly as it should be.

OP like many thing these days you'd do well to arm yourself with the actual factsand not come ranting with some BS post that just isn't true

Exactly, there is also no clarity atm around whether local authorities are exempt from the increase in Employer's NI.

In the private AND PUBLIC sector, high percentage final salary pensions were phased out in the early 2000s

The problem with this would be funding the double payments. At the moment, current contributions by existing workers go towards pension payouts for retired people.

Under your suggested reform, the current contributions of each individual would have to go into a ring-fenced individual pot, I assume in that person’s name and the government would have to fund all the pension payments from somewhere else.

If you think there’s a black hole in the budget now……

Jobs to do what? Spend money they keep slashing every year? Why would we need more litter pickers or law makers when there aren't funds for the vehicles to collect the litter, decent roads to drive on because there isn't funding, or new laws when there aren't enough police or prisons to enforce them??

Procurement contracts would he a better place to start.

Edited to add, I mean that you can't hire people of there are no materials of facilities in place. More staff isn't always the solution. Good staff are needed and you buy cheap you buy twice. Would you want your anaesthetics done by a doctor or an associate? 1 doctor paid well or 2 not paid well and not as qualified? I know who I want in my operating room

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c725g0pr5r1o.amp

The proposal seems to be "I want to save money with a policy that would save money in thirty years' time but probably force expenditure to rise significantly now to get jobs filled in the short term."

It's an interesting approach. Feels like one based on "I would like to kick some public sector workers please."

Let's not forget that many civil servants won't just leave for better paid work in the private sector, there are many that would go for lower paid work and it would disrup the market.

What are you then going to do for young people looking for their first job?

The increased minimum wage means noone will want to hire an inexperienced uni student for 6 weeks when Frank will work the shit shift at waitrose until the end of time, with no fuss and his years of people skills, for a quiet life, patiently waiting for his 3x annual death in service benefit from Waitrose to finally pay off his neverending mortgage and allow Sylvia to retire at the dear old age of 83.

This. I joined the public sector in 1997 and there were no final salary or 'gold plated' pensions then.

We have had 14 years of 1% pay rises and I earn barely above minimum wage.

If I wasn't so bloody old I'd have been off, the pension is the ONLY half decent thing about my job.

Sick and tired of people continually bashing the public sector without having a fucking clue how the country would grind to a fucking halt without us.

Yes, think it's OP rather than the replies 'missing the point'.

It really wouldn't. Their pensions are incredible but they're less than a drop in the ocean of public spending. They were reformed in 2015 and made a lot less generous - and the contributions from MPs' salaries to get the higher rate increased to 13% or so, with lower contributions leading to lower pensions.

But even at the old rate they would pay for very few jobs. Just like their salaries and expenses, they're a rounding error in public expenditure.

God, this.

No one should be spared from Labour money grab.

You might as well suggest that public sector salaries should be slashed. While they can obviously do that, people aren't exactly queuing up to do many public sector jobs nowadays. Why would anyone do the jobs if they are both low paid and don't even have good pensions?