A baby red panda at Edinburgh zoo choked on her own vomit in terror at the fireworks last week

Of course animals understanding death. It is bollcks to think that they do not. They see what is happening at the slaughter house and feel fear there too. Humans are not some kind of superior being, we just have the upper hand. If it is cruel to do to a human, it is cruel to do to an animal.

It's the normal practice in British sheep farming. The lambs wean naturally so they aren't taken from the ewe.
They do call for each for about a day when they are separated but not to the point they are distressed.

They load & travel well & are checked for signs of distress.

They do not fear or understand death so aren't distressed by it.

Fireworks & loose dogs cause far more distress & suffering.

Yep, totally!

Not trying to dress it up, just describe what is actually there. Describing it as a cage with lots of traffic noise is not accurate either. Red Pandas are endangered in the wild. Ginger and Bruce had successfully raised three kits at the zoo their granddaughter now lives there (in another large, well enriched enclosure). Her mum is Ruby who is at Chester Zoo. Quite a successful breeding record.

So you don't take the lambs from them or send them to slaughter? Wow, what sort of sheep farming is this? Love it!

We don't know what happened, maybe the staff were negligent, got the panda killed on their watch and blamed fireworks.

Saying that I'm in favour of banning both fireworks and zoos.

If your sheep are getting distressed by those things then you need to look at how you are farming.
That's not how mine are treated & don't know of any farmers that do that either.

Oh I'm sure the sheep didn't care that her lamb was dead, then, so you don't need to worry yourself!

🤦🏼‍♀️

Christ. Farmers really do live in their own little deluded world, don't they? Of course animals fucking suffer. Sheep are scared of EVERYTHING. They're terrified when they are "herded", terrified when cornered, terrified when they are separated from the other sheep, terrified when being packed into trailers or huge lorries to be moved or driven miles to a slaughterhouse, terrified when you take their babies away from them, terrified when they are forced off the truck to walk into the slaughterhouse with no escape, terrified when slaughterhouse workers don't abide by the law and abuse them before killing them.

Have a look at yourself.

@StandingSideBySide Although a farmer upthread has lost lots of animals
and I’m guessing it’s in the interests of the zoo to say it’s not a problem. Didn’t a pp note that they let people use the zoo to watch or something

You really think that a major zoo, governed by all sorts of regulations, and that has to report the death of any animal (or indeed get permission to euthanise unless absolute immediate need) to a national zoological board, is covering up the death of any, let alone ‘lots’ of animals due to fireworks? And no one notices they are missing? Yeeeahh, not sure on that one. I would think there are zero deaths given how highly regulated zoo’s here are in this regard, and it’s a whopper, not some small town half-arsed zoo. Or, are you confused with a Tiger King scenario?

@Areolaborealis you do realise in the wild when animals roam far distances it is because their food is depleting. No animal roams because they want to go for a jolly walk. Most see the zoo as the perfect home free of predators and always ample food. None of the zoos these days keep animals in enclosures too small for the species as we all now know it’s not what is best for the animal

We can dress it up however we like and call it a den/enclosure - its not their natural habitat is it? They are not free to roam.

Ultimately, having pandas at Edinburgh zoo in the name of conservation is not really working for them. Two are dead and the others were sent back to China after a decade of failed breeding attempts.

Although a farmer upthread has lost lots of animals
and I’m guessing it’s in the interests of the zoo to say it’s not a problem. Didn’t a pp note that they let people use the zoo to watch or something.

It’s a well known fact by animal charities, vets, owners of animals both domestic and farm that loud fireworks are a danger to animals

Those drone displays are lovely...and silent. Maybe they will catch on.

They (now just the male Bruce) have a large enclosure with several mature trees that they are usually climbing/sitting in. Wooden boxes for dens. Plenty of places to get away from view if they wish. Never seen them exhibiting any signs of distress and I go several times a year. There is little road noise once you get into the zoo. They are endangered in the wild.

What kind of muppets would think it's ok to let off fireworks anywhere remotely within distance of a zoo?

Again, it’s really not an issue. Here is a statement from our zoo located right in the harbour with the best view/sound of massive fireworks each year. Seemingly some animals get very excited in advance when they see the barges being set up for it (done weeks in advance). No animals drop dead and the birds don’t lose their hearing.

edited to add, here is a statement from the zoo saying there is no issue with the animals
https://taronga.org.au/news/2018-07-11/fireworks-and-taronga

The red panda is on the endangered list. When it comes off that list I will be happy for zoos to no longer have them.

The issue of fireworks and the antisocial and criminal behaviour goes far beyond this tragic incident.

banning Zoo and leaving animals in their natural environment will not happen in my life time

I do think all but very carefully planned public events should be banned now. There are too calendar events now where fireworks are used in celebration. Silent fireworks and limited days would be a massive step forward.

And also if they believed (and this is the word they use, they don't even know for sure fireworks were the cause) that fireworks caused the mum so much stress only a few days earlier that she died, why did they action to take further precautions with the baby?!? Why didn't they move the animal indoors where it was quieter or have someone stay with it. Seems ludicrous to have had one death then to take no action.

Or in zoos. But apparently it's the fireworks that are the problem. I am very against the banning of fireworks.

Those… are made of milk?

I've no strong view in either direction about a ban, but if the kit was believed to be so vulnerable, why wasn't it shut up for firework nights in a sleeping box or whatever? After all we keep pets inside on such nights, so why not the panda?

Or maybe it was tucked away safely and died even there ...

So was this the first time in recorded history fireworks could be heard/seen from the zoo?

Just wondering as the zoo should have things in place to deal with this

I said this on the other thread but I didn’t think zoos were a stress free environment for animals….