to think the 'Ask for Angela' pub safety scheme is inherently flawed?

I think it’s a hard one because it largely depends on the staff knowing about it & having training to know exactly what to do in that situation. I worked in 2 bars while at uni which were really good for this, it was part of the training to recognise and know the phrase and it was also part of training to know what you were supposed to do if it actually happened so staff felt confident with it.

I’ve recently had a baby and at every midwife appointment when I was asked to do a urine sample there was a poster on the back of the toilet door with a sheet of red dot stickers inside, poster said if you need help pop a red sticker on the bottom of your sample pot before you hand it back. A really good idea but not sure how that would work in a pub environment.

Barred from a wetherspoons isn't the end of the world for goodness sake. Sure it's unfair but I'd rather be banned from a pub than leave a woman in distress, I wouldn't care!

It's totally unrealistic to hope for some sort of secret code which is universally understood by all women (and barstaff) and unknown to men.

I think it works better in laces with smaller stable teams of staff and in smaller communities. I walked someone home a few months ago who was in a tricky situation, the bar manager had a word and asked if we would as she was across the street from us, it's pedestrianised by the pub!

Just remembered it was a coloured dot to stick on your notes, urine sample or desk/chair to alert the staff. A tear off strip would be better for a pub.

My son got barred from.a wetherspoon. Yes barred for no other reason than to help an " Angela " . He even walked her 2 bus stops away because she was in distress from a bad date and he saw her on the bus and went back to the pub.. only to be told be He shouldn't have got involved. The ' date ' was a boyfriend .that was dragging her by the hair. My son didn't know this was a boyfriend.
So Angela can go fend for herself in future.

Name changed for this .

My name is Angela and I worked in pubs for many years, both big chains and small locals.
I agree with pp , while in principle the scheme is a good idea, it doesn't always work.
Despite staff training most staff would either come and find me or tell the lady asking that I wasn't working atm.
I have also worked in pubs where a certain drink I can be asked for to elicit help but either the person wanting help forgets the exact name of it or the barstaff don't understand.

In one incident a lady used the easy access toilet ( disabled ) and pulled the emergency cord so myself and another member of staff went to see if we could help ( thinking she had fallen/ hurt herself) after asking a few questions through the door she unlocked it and we were able to get her out unnoticed.
I have often wondered if a similar thing could be fitted to standard ladies toilets but unfortunately I think it would get either misused 'let's see what happens ' or mistaken for some kind of light switch .
But I think there is potential with the idea.

@Sethera

The only people who need to know about it are hospitality staff and women. And there are plenty of other ways of getting this information to it's target audience than national news where plenty of men will get to know about it as well

@Boomer55

Sadly, not everyone has a friend or relative to help them.

The easiest way is to tell a relative/friend where you’re going, and just go to the loo and text/phone them for some assistance if you feel unsafe.🙂

All the schemes have flaws, Ask for Ani, Ask for Angela, Ask for Sandy but they're all in place to do good so maybe instead of criticising them we should be looking at why we need them in the first place.

It doesn't necessarily matter if a perpetrator does know about this, does it? They can hardly butt in and tell their companion that she doesn't want Angela. They might try to reassure her about her safety but if she's got that far, it's really too late.

Although BBC should have kept their gobs shut about this one. Now they've made it public knowledge.

I spent a decade in hospitality and have several issues with the scheme.
Some being that a minimum wage, often young employee isn't responsible of rthe personal safety of others.
I don't like how they've placed this burden on people without thought.

@gubbinsy

What is the alternative though? That women have no way to ask for help due to the minute chance that the bar staff will take advantage?

In pubs, the main value of the scheme is having staff primed to help anyone who asks without needing an explanation. The Angela code is easy and quick to say and perhaps attracts less unwelcome attention from other customers than ‘please help me get away I need to get away from that creep over there’ . But obviously it only works if all staff recognise it and if they do the perps will soon recognise it as well.

It should be rolled across all pubs/restaurants/bars etc. So all waiting staff know what to do.

Yes the bad date might know what is going on, but at the same time, if you are standing at a bar and with a waiter/waitress looking on, they would be daft to do anything. Or as someone else has suggested, maybe a strip or a card that you could hand over silently. Although the staff would have be to extremely diligent in making sure that these didn't run out.

Yes that was my concern as well.

That scheme sounds quite complicated, with multiple options for customers / staff to remember and understand

I am probably wrong but I always took it as a reminder that you can ask for help, not necessarily just “ask for Angela” it’s not a secret thing that men shouldn’t know about, just a gentle nudge that we don’t have to suffer in silence, out of some awkward in built politeness that we have drilled into us at an early age!

It’s a good idea. It’s worked for people I know. It’s better to have it than not have it. More training is needed. Women should give feedback that they want it.

The presence of posters like this in women's toilets is such a good idea. If a woman is accompanied by an abuser she can see how to get help, without alerting him. One reason I don't like men being in women's loos is that they used to be a place of refuge for a woman, with no man allowed to follow her in.

I think it's great in principle.

But it has a catch 22 issue.

For the bar staff and the people need it to be aware to use it, it has to be widely publicised so most people know it.
If it's widely publicised, then the perpetrators will know it too.

If the perpetrators know it too, then there's not much point having a code that keeps it secret.

The advantage, I think, is it allows a very quick phrase to express help.

However I know all about it, but I suspect if I was working, very busy, and someone came up and asked if Angela was there, I wouldn't immediately click - unless it was a regular thing, which I don't expect it is. It would be different if I'd already spotted red flags, I think.
I don't work in a bar though, so maybe it would be much more emphasised there.