to think the 'Ask for Angela' pub safety scheme is inherently flawed?

Except it is.
Minimum wage. Minimum effort.
And also the level of disruptions and expectations this could open up to is unknown.
This is not the problem of bar staff.

The easiest way is to tell a relative/friend where you’re going, and just go to the loo and text/phone them for some assistance if you feel unsafe.🙂

Jesus, its common decency and morals that should overrule wage, taking someone in the back isnt exactly a heavy burden of responsibility.

I’ve previously been involved with developing Ask For Angela into other areas beyond pubs. ‘Angela’ was identified as suitable because it has 3 syllables and the worker being approached more likely to understand if they only catch the last two syllables. As opposed to ‘help’ which has only one syllable and then prompts the question “help with what”.

It isn’t actually intended to be kept secret from men. Posters have a dual purpose - to empower women to seek help, and to warn men that women they are with have a safe support if feel uncomfortable by men’s behaviour.

The public nature of the posters and initiative is also intended to galvanise bystanders to react if they witness a woman in an uncomfortable situation. Also for pub workers to potentially approach a woman and work Angela into a conversation. It’s intended to be subtle yet powerful. So a guy behaving inappropriately also understands that the unwarranted behaviour has been observed and he can be removed from the situation. That bit is important, because removing the women to a place of safety is great, but potentially leaves the creep to move on to someone else… who then needs to ask for Angela.

Part of my work in my team included checking licences for AforA, also checking induction plans of businesses to make sure that was covered at the earliest stage of recruitment. Also delivered the training for many organisations and provided posters, stickers for windows etc. The electronic rolling advertising things in the town centre were also set to include the AforA messaging to coincide with the nighttime economy. Do lots of moving parts that worked when synced together.

But this is very area specific and had the funding, drive and commitment to this as part of the previous government’s Prevention of Violence against Women and Girls Strategy. Goodness only knows if or how it’s going, as I and two others have left the team and moved on.

Thanks for this. As an 18-year-old, I would have been well up for assisting another woman in trouble, but I'm old and in my day young people weren't quite so fearful. No wonder so many young people are so anxious. As you say, responding 'Yes, Angela's just back here in the office, come through and see her' is hardly stepping into a knife fight, is it?

Wouldn't it better if you are going to meet strange men in pubs to meet in a group, the staff can only do so much though

If people want to cry victim blaming feel free and yes women can have issues with known partners but then again call the police

Keeping someone safe should not be anyone else's sole responsibility we should be encouraging everyone to make the best safety choices themselves and respect ourselves first

My son got barred from.a wetherspoon. Yes barred for no other reason than to help an " Angela " . He even walked her 2 bus stops away because she was in distress from a bad date and he saw her on the bus and went back to the pub.. only to be told be He shouldn't have got involved. The ' date ' was a boyfriend .that was dragging her by the hair. My son didn't know this was a boyfriend.
So Angela can go fend for herself in future.

Jesus, its common decency and morals that should overrule wage, taking someone in the back isnt exactly a heavy burden of responsibility.

All the schemes have flaws, Ask for Ani, Ask for Angela, Ask for Sandy but they're all in place to do good so maybe instead of criticising them we should be looking at why we need them in the first place.

What are bar staff supposed to do when they hear the code? Call the police? Will the police come to the bar if they receive a call because a woman asked for Angela (with no other details)?

I spent a decade in hospitality and have several issues with the scheme.
Some being that a minimum wage, often young employee isn't responsible of rthe personal safety of others.
I don't like how they've placed this burden on people without thought.

There should be mandatory training on it and it should be a part of licence conditions. By all means tweak the Ask Angela scheme if there’s evidence that it’s not working optimally. But there needs to be a safeguarding system that’s understood by customers and staff, and mandatory good quality staff training in licensed premises.

I also have been helped to access support when with an abusive man but by staff noticing my distress and discreetly getting information to me

I am unsurprised with high turnover of staff, ages of staff, and general lack of care for women that Ask for Angela is not working as intended

women’s toilets can’t really be considered to be safe single sex spaces anymore as so many let males in

I would much rather see prominent posters all over pubs and public spaces aimed at abusers saying that abuse will not be tolerated - like the ones in hospitals for NHS staff

pub & club staff could then have training to keep an eye and ear out for abusive behaviour and language

am sure I’ve seen posters listing abusive behaviour and saying it’s abusive but possibly only aimed at ‘women not putting up with it’ rather than ‘anyone doing it gets chucked out/police called’

the emphasis has to be (imo) on making abusers uncomfortable in public spaces, make it normal for the general public to notice abusive behaviour and police it societally - half the time it is done in plain sight as abusers know it is currently more or less expected by everyone

scatter several posters about with reminders to not to abuse, sexually assault or rape anyone - one above every urinal and in every stall of every toilet males have access to

and some about the public part of the bars (with “we’re watching you, you fucking pervert” maybe?)

we need to put the onus back onto behavioural change of abusers and stop expecting everyone else to have to live like fugitives with code words and safe zones and the like

I wouldn't have a clue it's not a real drink, it sounds a perfectly plausible name for one! With the plethora of drinks on sale, including informal names for drinks, cocktails with bizarre names etc, I'm not sure a bar person's first reaction would be 'that drink doesn't exist' - more likely they would ask you how to make it.

I get that you could train people in one specific pub, but if 'ask for Angela' doesn't work universally, the more complex 'angel shot' code won't either.

I do. Not very often, but if I have an afternoon when my daughter is elsewhere and I’ve been out I might well stop in a pub to read a book/newspaper and have a drink and/or food. I’m less likely to do it in the evening, unless I’m away from home on my own, but I’ve done it then both home and abroad. I am sure I’m a long way from being the only one.

So do lone women usually drink in pubs without knowing anyone there?, if I was in a pub for example I would be with my husband of friends/other family if I had an issue I would speak to my husband or a friend/other family first to help me before the bar staff

So I am not sure how many women would need to use 'ask for angela' unless they were meeting someone alone?

Sure I could be naive that there is lots of women alone in pubs just sat drinking by themselves