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To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

668 replies

helpamilout · 12/11/2024 20:23

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

OP posts:
Maria1979 · 13/11/2024 16:53

@helpamilout Dear OP. I think you sound lovely. Unfortunately your Dil is not thinking about you nor her dc relationship with you. She's happy being a Sahm (I am as well but without cleaner and cook:) and she likes spending time with her parents. You are of no interest to her. I am sorry but it's obvious. She doesn't dislike you, she just isn't bothered to have a close relationship with you. It's sad for the dc and your son but I think that you will be happier if you accept this and get involved elsewhere.

Whatsitreallylike · 13/11/2024 16:27

Have you complained to your son about how little you see them at all? This will have got back to her and might be clouding her judgement of you.

Do ‘they’ visit her parents together or does she visit when he’s working? I could imagine her choosing to see her family in her own time and spending time as a family when your DS is off work, especially is her works a lot.
And when her mum stays does it overlap when your DS would be at work? I could imagine her not being keen to host you on her own. If her DM came down on a Sunday and stayed to Monday for example they probably spend the Monday together. You wouldn’t have the same opportunity to do this with your DS as he’d be working.

On the whole it does seem really mean spirited, but if she’s choosing to spend time as above and then you’re (however nicely) asking your son why not you, she would be told second hand and probably think youre being unreasonable. That might explain the behaviour change even if you’ve done nothing directly. Remember he will likely have told her everything you’ve said.

thepariscrimefiles · 13/11/2024 16:16

Fraudornot · 13/11/2024 16:02

I havent read the full thread but I think the following are unreasonable
-Making you wait a month to meet a new grandchild
-only 2 visits a year
-saying no to babysitting
I think you should focus on this and say to ds you want to have a closer relationship with your grandchild rather than focus on the dil. But you are not being unreasonable to want more and, as someone with grown up children who had both sets of grandparents until recently, its to the huge benefit of the grandchildren to have all these special people in their life. So meet with your son and focus on that and ask how you can work together to make this happen.

OP's son and DIL only visit her twice a year but OP and her DH are invited to visit them once a month. Her son organises a schedule of activities during these visits and often pays for them to stay in a hotel, so she does see her grandchildren very regularly, although less than her DIL's parents.

Laiste · 13/11/2024 16:10

ABirdsEyeView · 13/11/2024 16:03

It's not really the same @Sunseeker83 - both you and your dh are working ft and splitting life responsibilities equally. Of course it's not on you to facilitate anything in those circumstances. But OPs dil is a sahp - facilitating this sort of thing is kind of her job since she has all the time in the week and dh is the only one working and that's how they've decided to split the responsibilities

OPs dil is a sahp - facilitating this sort of thing is kind of her job since she has all the time in the week

Says who?
(Obviously not the son or the DIL in this scenario, which is what matters most)

But no, just because you're a SAHP it doesn't mean you have to spend time alone with anybody if you don't want to ! DIL doesn't want to. I wouldn't want to visit with my MIL on my own.

DH certainly wouldn't want to visit with my mother on his own. Even if he had ''all the time in the week''. He doesn't like her, and i wouldn't ask him to.

The OP sees the family once a month.

ABirdsEyeView · 13/11/2024 16:03

It's not really the same @Sunseeker83 - both you and your dh are working ft and splitting life responsibilities equally. Of course it's not on you to facilitate anything in those circumstances. But OPs dil is a sahp - facilitating this sort of thing is kind of her job since she has all the time in the week and dh is the only one working and that's how they've decided to split the responsibilities

Fraudornot · 13/11/2024 16:02

I havent read the full thread but I think the following are unreasonable
-Making you wait a month to meet a new grandchild
-only 2 visits a year
-saying no to babysitting
I think you should focus on this and say to ds you want to have a closer relationship with your grandchild rather than focus on the dil. But you are not being unreasonable to want more and, as someone with grown up children who had both sets of grandparents until recently, its to the huge benefit of the grandchildren to have all these special people in their life. So meet with your son and focus on that and ask how you can work together to make this happen.

Laiste · 13/11/2024 15:59

Can anyone imagine a man getting funny about how much time his son in law spends with his own father?
...

Anyway, that aside, yes i would still tell your son you are in the area when you are randomly at his siblings house. Let him respond.

The update about his weekends - that in fact he works one day a weekend a couple of times a month, rather than the whole weekend twice a month - makes me think he's definitely happy seeing you once a month for longer quality time rather than 'popping' sorts of visits throughout the month.

My DH loves his mum but wouldn't want a weekend visit every month. He works most saturdays and he likes to chill at the weekend at home and switch right off. His mum likes to talk. And talk and talk and talk. And he feels he has to engage because she's come to talk to him.

DH is just not into hours of chatting. A quick half hour catch up over whats app every couple of weeks is fine for him (and he will be the one to instigate the call) but face to face for ages - not more than once every 6 weeks or so.

For me also I'd find a rigid weekend per month having MIL over draining. The weeks fly by and the weekends are over in the blink of an eye. There's always stuff needs doing with the kids or the house and birthdays ect ect. One in 4 weekends being penciled in for MIL would feel like LOADS!

Sunseeker83 · 13/11/2024 15:52

This could be my MIL writing this aside from the fact that they live in the same town as us and my family live on the other side of the world so the competitive grandparenting element isn't there.

I have enough to do let alone adding all the MIL admin into it That's his job. He can arrange visits, presents etc. I refuse to take that on. Even if MiL expects me to (trad gender views).

We have spoken about it. We both work full time, we both contribute financially, physically and emotionally to our children, household, relationship. This is how we've decided some of the other stuff should be split. I look after things for my family, he for his. It's not my fault he doesn't really care about some of these things therefore my family get much more thoughtful interactions. I can prompt him and do but if he decides not to do it. It's not my fault.

I also bloody wish MIL could babysit. Unfortunately DH doesn't trust her to. I know she thinks it's me. It's not.

I imagine you have a slack DH issue. Not a DIL issue

NoisyDenimShaker · 13/11/2024 15:47

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 10:40

We've done this once, and I would very happily do it. DIL says that it's still a bit far (this was with 1 little one, let alone 2 kids) to go, an hours drive is a lot for a child each way and that it disrupts their schedule, and she feels sad that they spend 2hrs in the car (an hour each way) rather than using that time to play outside.
Of course I could mention that she regularly does a 2hr drive to her parents' house, one way, obviously in one day... but what do I get out of this - if she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to, and forcing her won't do any good.

She feels "sad" about her children having a one-hour car journey broken up by a visit before a one-hour car journey home?

I think she sounds rather precious.

Also, the use of the word "sad" has been misappropriated these days.

jolota · 13/11/2024 15:44

I think is a recurring theme with these kinds of threads that I find difficult to relate to.
That grandparents on both parents side should be entitled to equal access to the grandchildren even when that means by extension the parents.
Even if you are the nicest, kindest, most welcoming MIL in the world - that might never be enough to have the same level of relationship as your DIL has with her own parents.
She goes to see her own parents mid week probably because she's comfortable with them! She would likely not be comfortable visiting your house mid week with your son only joining on the weekend. That doesn't seem like an unusual scenario to me. Most people would probably admit to feeling more comfortable with their own parents than their PIL.
Your son should be and is the one managing your relationship with your grandchildren, you are seeing them as often as I think can be realistic given his work schedule.
Perhaps that alone is the issue, that she feels pressure to spend more time with you, from your son or you, when she's never really comfortable or relaxed in your presence?
Or maybe there is something else going on, you'll have to have the conversation to find out.
In terms of visiting the baby, I wouldn't mind my mother seeing me in a hospital robe exhausted and drained post birth, but I can't think of anyone else I would have felt comfortable being there, certainly not my husbands parents!
I wouldn't tell anyone I was pregnant before 20 weeks unless I was comfortable enough to talk to them if I had a loss. Maybe she's just not prepared to have to deal with that kind of conversation with you.
The expectation that everything will be exactly equal when your DIL is the one doing most child rearing is unrealistic, because she's obviously going to favour her own family and its your sons job to favour you, which he does appear to be trying to do. I think when the children are older and have less need for their primary care giver, a conversation about changing the dynamic could be broached but if they need their mother at this time then you have to accept that its a joint package situation rather than pushing for visits without her now.
TLDR Comparison is the thief of joy, focus on your grandchildren, enjoy your time with them. Be polite to your DIL but don't expect her to have the same level of relationship with you as her own parents.

Wellingtonspie · 13/11/2024 15:29

5iveleafclovers · 13/11/2024 15:16

I also was reluctant at first to leave them minding the baby. They parented very differently to me. And then they stopped offering even though I'd have no issue now that I'm 3 kids in and past the precious first born phase

I wonder why they stopped offering. Tis a mystery🙄

Haha indeed. Mind boggling.

I was the same in the sense I didn’t want free time or overnight babysitting. Though fortunately even now as teenagers I still don’t want to/need to. Otherwise its rather cutting one’s nose off.

We do school time dates and such and trips to the beach when they have after school clubs alone but otherwise I choose to have children it’s my job to raise them.

5iveleafclovers · 13/11/2024 15:16

I also was reluctant at first to leave them minding the baby. They parented very differently to me. And then they stopped offering even though I'd have no issue now that I'm 3 kids in and past the precious first born phase

I wonder why they stopped offering. Tis a mystery🙄

StrungWithSilverBellsAndFlowers · 13/11/2024 15:02

As a DIL and now a MIL, this sounds hard OP. You sound as though you are genuinely seeking insight and want to improve the relationship.

Some of the replies here are rather harsh, IMO.

Years back, when my MIL was really quite unpleasant with me I spoke to her directly about it. I think if I felt there was something not right in my relationships with either of my DILs I'd be tempted to do the same - to ask if I had done something to offend or upset.

I hope things improve for you.

thenoldmrsrabbit · 13/11/2024 14:58

@helpamilout

I really think you should accept and make the best time of what time their family allocates your family in terms of socialising.

You aren't a " all live in the same town " type of family where family ties are easy to maintain and you can offer to collect the kids from school one day or take them to a sports activity.

Be the best grandparents you can and the best MIL you can when you see them. Don't wish for a different type of family because it isn't realistic and will only cause upset.

If you stay upbeat now, it's more likely to maintain a friendly, if not particularly close relationship with their family.

Cravingtoffeeapples · 13/11/2024 14:48

I was on the other side of this sort of, aside from I was able to rise above a lot of things (Dhs family quite toxic, we met when young and they weren’t great to me)
Before dd arrived, I always replied lots to her Whatsapps (there were a lot) Dh is rubbish so she often had to find out about our lives through me. Things happened though, such as her telling my sil private things i’d told her and so on, plus it was overwhelming as I had work and my own life. When I was pregnant with dd, I don’t know of it was hormones, but I just found the attention really unwanted and intrusive, things like giving dd a name she liked and asking how baby x was the name she’d chosen) everything annoyed me and I found she could be quite manipulative at times too. Once dd arrived, I literally did not have the time or energy for lengthy WhatsApp chats, but always said to dh that he should call his mum and actively encouraged it, then I gave up on that as didnt feel it was my job to be telling a 40 something year old man to contact his mum more or send her a birthday card 🤷🏻‍♀️
I dont know, maybe i’m an awful person, just being honest

BonfireToffee · 13/11/2024 14:34

This is meant kindly, genuinely.

You seem lovely, OP, but the fact is, you're her MIL, not her mother.

You do seem to be expecting her to do the wifework of managing, facilitating and improving your relationship with her, the kids, even your own son. She's not his PA, and it's not on her to arrange meet-ups and events for you all.

The way I see it, she deals with that stuff for her family; your son should handle his family.

Naunet · 13/11/2024 14:32

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 14:13

This must be a bug bear for him though he hasn’t let you know. That he works this hard, earns so much for her to stay at home, but has to pay for a housekeeper 3 x a week and she doesn’t take on any of the faciliation work for gp contact that a normal sahm would while pissing off 2 hours one way multiple times a week to see her dp. The more you share the more I think the problem is her and their marriage.

Edited

Yes let's ignore and devalue the fact that it's also a luxury to have children and never have to take time out of work to care for them or arrange childcare. It's not a one way street.

LilyBartsHatShop · 13/11/2024 14:31

Comparison is the thief of joy.

AlwaysYoshi · 13/11/2024 14:27

Comparison and expecting equal treatment is not doing you any favors.

You seem like a genuinely lovely person, not overly judgmental or intrusive, but one visit a month is a perfectly reasonable amount of visits, especially with the distance involved.

I like my MIL, but she’s not my parent. It is ‘work’ and I have to be ‘on’ when we visit. I’m also not DH’s social secretary, he needs to be present and arrange his own family visits.
My mother stayed with me when I had broken my arm and leg, showered me, dropped everything and ran my household for nearly two months. I would never ask or accept that help from my MIL, the relationship is simply not the same. I spend lots of time with my parents, I won’t apologize or change that to appease my MIL.

i genuinely think you would be a lot happier if you stopped thinking about the time/effort your DIL gives to her parents. It is not something you can control, it is not something that is ever going to be ‘equal’. Enjoy the visits that you do have, continue to reach out to your son and let him know if you’re going to be in town and dial back the “helpfulness” that doesn’t sound like it is wanted or appreciated.

Naunet · 13/11/2024 14:25

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 13:48

A few posters have now said that perhaps I'm too much in trying to contact them or see them. As painful as it is, I'll try to back away a bit. It's usually 50/50 my son or me initiating the meet up so maybe I'll drop my 50 and see if he keeps up his 50... the only question is: sometimes me initiating a meet is saying "I'm staying at [DS's sibling's house in the same town] between X and Y November. Shall I see you one day over that weekend?" so in those cases should I still let him know? Feels a bit rude if I'm in town not to tell him... but equally I see what you mean about not imposing unless I'm invited.

Also, a few clarifications...

  • DS works 1-2 weekends a month. Sometimes it's 1 day of 1 weekend, rarely both days of 2 weekends, most often it's something in between. I appreciate that it's still more than other people will work, but he does it for their family - for the kids, DIL and himself. So, whilst they don't have as much family time as they would if DS worked a 9-5 job, it's not like I am taking away 2 whole days of their 4 family ones
  • most visits I don't stay over, it has happened on occasion but isnt the norm for us. It's usually something like me arriving at 10 (either by train in the morning from my town, or if I've been at my other child's house the previous day then stayed over) and then leaving around 4/5. On some occasions my son will pay for a hotel if he knows we won't see GC for a while after, if he just wants to treat us, if the train times make it awkward or if it's a special occasion for us, for example when we celebrated their dad's 70th.
  • the other GPs live a 2hr drive away; so when I said she drives 2hrs one way in one day, that's literally just there or just back. She wouldn't drive the other way in the same day too. But it does illustrate the point that a 2hr drive isn't too much for one day but 2x 1hr drives in the same day to meet us halfway is a lot for her

No Op, THEY pay for a hotel, just as THEY have a cleaner (rather than just her). Maybe your DiL is sick of your sexist attitude.
How often does your son drive to see his MiL?

Brefugee · 13/11/2024 14:24

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 14:13

This must be a bug bear for him though he hasn’t let you know. That he works this hard, earns so much for her to stay at home, but has to pay for a housekeeper 3 x a week and she doesn’t take on any of the faciliation work for gp contact that a normal sahm would while pissing off 2 hours one way multiple times a week to see her dp. The more you share the more I think the problem is her and their marriage.

Edited

and again - the Lovely DH allows his wife to stay home and therefore she should facilitate contact with a woman she would have nothing to do with if they weren't married...

It is not acceptable. And frankly, OP takes up a lot of their family time and he's not complaining about that (and from what we can ascertain nor is DIL even though she's apparently giving off vibes)

OP let it go, and enjoy what you have.

ColaCar · 13/11/2024 14:22

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 14:13

This must be a bug bear for him though he hasn’t let you know. That he works this hard, earns so much for her to stay at home, but has to pay for a housekeeper 3 x a week and she doesn’t take on any of the faciliation work for gp contact that a normal sahm would while pissing off 2 hours one way multiple times a week to see her dp. The more you share the more I think the problem is her and their marriage.

Edited

Why would it be a big bear?
He sounds like he loves his wife and kids and doesn’t mind paying for extra help.
She doesn’t stop him arranging visits but she doesn’t go out of her way to arrange any direct which is normal considering they see them every month anyway.

My husband works full time and I didn’t work for years, I never arranged any visits with his family in that time, he arranged it all. I would never go out with them on my own or take the kids over. Absolutely nothing wrong in our relationship and we are still together now our kids are teens

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 14:13

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 13:48

A few posters have now said that perhaps I'm too much in trying to contact them or see them. As painful as it is, I'll try to back away a bit. It's usually 50/50 my son or me initiating the meet up so maybe I'll drop my 50 and see if he keeps up his 50... the only question is: sometimes me initiating a meet is saying "I'm staying at [DS's sibling's house in the same town] between X and Y November. Shall I see you one day over that weekend?" so in those cases should I still let him know? Feels a bit rude if I'm in town not to tell him... but equally I see what you mean about not imposing unless I'm invited.

Also, a few clarifications...

  • DS works 1-2 weekends a month. Sometimes it's 1 day of 1 weekend, rarely both days of 2 weekends, most often it's something in between. I appreciate that it's still more than other people will work, but he does it for their family - for the kids, DIL and himself. So, whilst they don't have as much family time as they would if DS worked a 9-5 job, it's not like I am taking away 2 whole days of their 4 family ones
  • most visits I don't stay over, it has happened on occasion but isnt the norm for us. It's usually something like me arriving at 10 (either by train in the morning from my town, or if I've been at my other child's house the previous day then stayed over) and then leaving around 4/5. On some occasions my son will pay for a hotel if he knows we won't see GC for a while after, if he just wants to treat us, if the train times make it awkward or if it's a special occasion for us, for example when we celebrated their dad's 70th.
  • the other GPs live a 2hr drive away; so when I said she drives 2hrs one way in one day, that's literally just there or just back. She wouldn't drive the other way in the same day too. But it does illustrate the point that a 2hr drive isn't too much for one day but 2x 1hr drives in the same day to meet us halfway is a lot for her

This must be a bug bear for him though he hasn’t let you know. That he works this hard, earns so much for her to stay at home, but has to pay for a housekeeper 3 x a week and she doesn’t take on any of the faciliation work for gp contact that a normal sahm would while pissing off 2 hours one way multiple times a week to see her dp. The more you share the more I think the problem is her and their marriage.

Secretgarden11 · 13/11/2024 14:08

RoaryLion1 · 12/11/2024 22:12

I’m another one whose MIL could have written this post! My MIL and I are not close - we’re very different people, and I’ve found her harder to be around since our DC have arrived. She’s made judgemental comments about parenting decisions (kept suggesting we gave DS1 a bottle when he was EBF, wasn’t keen on him going to nursery at 1 etc), and also lots of comments about how much she misses the GC, hasn’t seen them in ages, when it’s been a few weeks between visits. Any of that sound familiar OP?

It does to me. My MIL is exactly the same.

OP, honestly you could be my MIL writing about me.

For me, we're just completely different people with completely different personalities and to be honest, she grates on me after more than a couple of hours.

She is a very loving and fantastic mother and grandmother so I arrange a visit to the IL's or them coming to us once every couple of months, but I have simply no desire to see any more of them than that and DH is too lazy and preoccupied with other things to see them anymore frequently.

The cooking thing and helping thing all too sound like my MIL. I just want to say to my MIL, just STOP. Absolutely see and have a relationship with your son and GC but stop trying to be overly 'helpful' just to try and score brownie points. It feels (to me) overbearing and intrusive.

Honestly I think the answer is simple, if you have similar personality and interests to your MIL and really enjoy each others company and get on like a house on fire, you'll naturally want to spend a lot of time with them. If you don't, then you won't. The fact that you live a distance away means when you do see one another, it's for a prolonged period. If it was just popping in for a cuppa once a week, I think your DIL would be a lot warmer towards you (I know I would my MIL)

TheBalkanBreakfast · 13/11/2024 13:56

If I was you I would carry on making efforts via your son as you are now- but don't push it. I totally understand why you are sad about this but you are kind of in a no win situation. If you push it too much, DIL will become resentful - if you back off too much then it could become the 'norm' and it becomes harder and harder to organise.

My advice would be to cheerfully keep trying to make plans through your son and take what he offers and make the most of it. Make it as easy for them as possible. Sounds very unfair but by trying to push for more it could just make it worse.