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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

668 replies

helpamilout · 12/11/2024 20:23

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

OP posts:
CocoPlum · 14/11/2024 14:09

Is something missing in the story about not seeing the baby until they were a month old?

It seems like you were excited and ready to.visit when they were ready for you to come but after a week, did you not bring it up with your son? What did he say at that point? Because while I wanted my mum asap after I gave birth, and didn't feel comfortable with my ILs visiting, I wouldn't have stopped my husband having them come to meet their grandchild. It just seems odd as your telling of the story seems to be that you waited to be invited without ever questioning?

Wellingtonspie · 14/11/2024 13:53

Whiteskies · 14/11/2024 13:39

Although none of this would explain the 'son preference' you find in so much of Asia where it has always been the son's job to look after his parents and not the role of any daughters

Different cultures raising their children differently instilling the expectations and their values from birth means different outcomes.

In Asian families it is often expected that the children will cover their parents retirements essentially paying them back for raising them. A daughter would go off and marry and then become part of his family to care for his parents. So a daughter is more disposable and less use and is raised to know she will leave the family and join his family.

In England there is not the expectation to essentially pay your parents back for having you. Sons are not required to therefore cover their parents expenses so basically go off and just support their new home. Daughters stay close to their mothers because they are not expected to become the in-laws extra help rather she gets to just stay being her own person.

Whiteskies · 14/11/2024 13:39

Although none of this would explain the 'son preference' you find in so much of Asia where it has always been the son's job to look after his parents and not the role of any daughters

Whiteskies · 14/11/2024 13:05

I ran into a girl I used to teach. At school she disclosed emotional and physical abuse from her parents. They were very traditional, strict and unbending. In the end she stayed with them and did not move into foster care. She is now married with a child. She told me that her parents do a lot of childcare for her child. I just nodded and smiled but she blurted out that it was what she knew, she grew up with it and so she allowed them to look after her child.
There are lots of women on MN who put up with abusive parents because it is what they are familiar with. It is very common
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_violence
In my experience women put up with a lot a of unacceptable behaviors from their own parents. They will not put up with the slightest suggestion of anything from inlaws.
A lot of women, particularly SAHMs, use their own mothers for emotional support. I see so many mothers at toddler groups with their own mums in tow.
The husbands are there to earn money. They have very little say in many matters to do with the home.
I do think though that women who deliberately cut off their husbands from emotional involvement with their families, can be the ones whose husbands walk out on them. Or whose husbands remarry quickly when they are bereaved. They are trained not to be emotionally attached.
I really hope that is changing.

Cycle of violence - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_violence

Laiste · 14/11/2024 12:51

'Get to know the paternal grandmother' ?

She's over for a day or a weekend once a month!

My youngest sees her paternal grand parents apx 5/6 per year. They are 2 hours away like OP.

DD 'knows' them just fine! ''It's nan and grand dad! Yay!'' Runs into their house or runs to greet them at our door <Big hugs> She's 10 now. She looks forward to seeing them. They have fun when they see each other ... ?

Maria1979 · 14/11/2024 12:42

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 13/11/2024 23:40

Selfish? Or busy caring for her kids and wanting a rest and recharge when she can with her own mum?

Dil has someone cooking and cleaning for her. How can it be hard to have your Mil who seems really nice over so that her children can get to know their paternal grandmother? OP even wants to watch the children so DIL could get all rest she wants. I do think she's being selfish.

Laiste · 14/11/2024 12:41

@GelatinousDynamo Today 12:03

I don't get why you're so disappointed about seeing them once a month? It's plenty. I don't think I could stomach seeing my ILs more often, and they are (mostly) lovely people. It's exhausting, in a way that they are strangers that you've been thrown together and are supposed to suddenly play happy families with.

This is it, tbh. I'm the same.
I've quoted Gelatinous but lots of us have said it.

I don't feel OP has responded to this basic message.

I wonder if the coolness is because of OPs tunnel vision at the moment. ''I want more''. ''I want things to be different''. ''This is not enough''.

Our feelings come out in micro mannerisms and little things we say. Subconsciously (and sometimes not).

Now the big idea that there's an ISSUE. You (and the rest of the family who you've asked) are probably unaware of what the BIG ISSUE is because ... there isn't one!

It might ironically simply be that this persuit of 'what the issue is' IS the very thing straining the fragile relationship between you and DIL OP.

It's a perfect storm. Yes - she's pissed off about something by the sound of it but it might be that she's just sick of the vibes from the word go that your once a month visit isn't enough and the asking about staying over and asking to do the kids laundry and bring it back and the interest in how she's spending her time (how often she's been to her mum's lately )(i bet you do, be honest) is getting on her tits.

Throw in that she's probably picking up subtle clues about everything you have thoughts about.
Once a month is not enough.
She has a housekeeper .... she doesn't like house work.
Your son works hard while she's a SAHP
She happily drives the long journey to her parents but isn't thrilled about doing the long drives you suggest.
You want to stay over in their house but they're making up excuses.
You're eager to baby sit the kids but haven't yet.
You want to come over during the week.
You bring food and she isn't enthusiastic.
You're jealous about her seeing her parents more than your son sees you.
You think there's an issue (!) and feel like having it out with her.

It's a long list.
If i only sensed half of it i'd have my hackles up.

Mymanyellow · 14/11/2024 12:39

I don’t want to put words in ops mouth but I’m not sure if it’s the frequency alone that is the problem, it’s the way she is treated when she does see them.

GelatinousDynamo · 14/11/2024 12:03

I don't get why you're so disappointed about seeing them once a month? It's plenty. I don't think I could stomach seeing my ILs more often, and they are (mostly) lovely people. It's exhausting, in a way that they are strangers that you've been thrown together and are supposed to suddenly play happy families with. But you have no common interests apart from your spouse and eventual children, no common history and nothing to talk about apart from platitudes. You have to host them as guests and are unable to relax in your own home. My MIL also offers to "help" all the time, but she does things so differently that it stresses me out and I end up doing it all again after she's left.

There's nothing personal about it, but I can think of many things I would rather be doing with my weekends that don't involve spending them with my MIL, putting on a pleasant face for her and feeling bored with the forced polite conversation. And I can never relax with her like I would with my own family, I cannot argue with her like I do with them. We tell each other what we think because it's safe, I know that we'll still love each other after an argument. I just don't have the same safe relationship with my MIL.

Also, I can understand her not "letting" your DS take her kids away to stay at yours, it seems like he's not very hands on with them due to being away a lot and she wouldn't be able to relax and not worry.

In short: you need a life and maybe a hobby or two.

Blahdeblah24 · 14/11/2024 11:24

You see them on a monthly basis, that is quite normal
You don’t say how young the grandchildren are here but they still sound very young so I can quite see why your DIL would not want to traipse an hour out of London with two tots/nappies/food! Would you?!

@helpamilout How often do you see your other DC and their families? If you have 4 kids then that should keep you occupied each weekend of the month!

You complain you aren’t invited to stay then drip feed you have other DC in London that you do stay with so they probably see that as you having a reasonable place to stay (I would!) I can only speak from my own experience but having your own parents stay is a help as you don’t feel the need to look presentable & can ask them to muck in. With extended family / friends you feel the need to ‘host’ them. You may argue you don’t expect this but it may be how your DIL feels regardless.

You sound judgmental of your DIL & even with a housekeeper of course she has cooking and housework to do still! i know my MIL and SIL used to discuss me & my household set up and my lack of attributes as a ‘wife’ & it made me withdraw from them. MIL has a very old fashioned set up (FIL doesn’t know how to use the washing machine for example) and although you may say nice things on the face of it she may be picking up on underlying judgment.

My MIL was desperate to babysit too. I was breastfeeding so just didn’t need it in the early days. You will probably find they are more receptive to it as the children get older. You’ve put the offer in they’ve said thanks but not needed yet now wait to be asked.

in my case the main reason I don’t want to see more of my PIL is that I have very little in common with them other than a shared interest in their son and our DC. Politically my PIL are Reform/Trump/conspiracy theory types and it’s got worse since they joined social media as they share intolerant and sometimes racist crap. I am by nature a liberal person and I have no common views with them. Even their son doesn’t like the views they appear to now hold. So when we see them it’s fairly superficial. I’m not saying that is the case for you @helpamilout but just an explanation from my own dynamics.

It seems like your son has a very demanding job & your DIL has her hands full. I wouldn’t try & force anything more onto them to meet your own ‘needs’. Enjoy when you do get together otherwise you will find it’s even more strained if you start asking ‘why can’t we see you more?’

Kombuchamonster · 14/11/2024 10:02

I commented a while back - but you ignored - that the amount of time they are giving to you is AMAZING in the context. One weekend a month, when they only get two full weekends together! They are giving you half of their downtime.

The fact she sees her own mum more than you is irrelevant. You are comparing which is unhealthy, and anyway she might be super close to her Mum. What she does with her time is up to her and you sound petty making comparison.

Why would a knackered SAHM want to host someone in their home! They have paid for a hotel which is great. It's exhausting having to to host people and be "on" all weekend, tidy round, wash bedsheets, keep on top of the bathroom, cook, make drinks, be on best behaviour, make sure kids are behaving, feeling awkward about possible tantrums, picky eating etc, and all the time waiting for the guests to leave so you can get into your lounging clothes and relax together.

You identified the c-section comment, which makes me suspect there are likely loads more comments you have made but you have a lack of self-awareness. You certainly have judged her a lot on this thread (the cleaning remarks, his job, "his" income, the apparent ease of her life, to whom and when she chooses to announce pregnancy etc etc). You frankly don't like her, making digs about your other son saying she's been cold etc, plus sound jealous and petty over the time she chooses to spend with her parents, and also display misogynist attitudes. This is what you must think as you have shared it on here, so it's overwhelmingly likely that this seeps out in your comments, your facial expression and you general attitude.

In the context of all of this you are extremely blessed to get to see them all so often and be included and catered for so much.

lemonstolemonade · 14/11/2024 09:21

You don't have to criticise someone to make them feel small, especially if they don't feel confident.

My MIL also made clear, without saying so, that she felt that I was punching above my weight. She would "pitch" all my husband's great characteristics and comment favourably on his looks and then just let it.... hang, just to emphasise how lucky I was pretty much every visit. She never asked me anything about myself. I always presented in a chatty way and let it wash over me, but it did change how I felt about her underneath.

lemonstolemonade · 14/11/2024 09:14

@Fingerscrossedfor2021HK

Me too!! Although my relationship with my parents is also a bit complicated and my relationship with my PIL is much better than the OP - both GP relationships somewhere in the middle.

It is hard to lose your whole separate identity and sometimes get treated like just a vessel for carrying a grandchild, however much you love your babies. And the external affirmation you get from being successful in work is often more than you get from caring for a small child.

My MIL was very big on the idea that I was spoiling my first child, but she has changed her tune now and is quite complimentary about my mothering. My own parents don't really praise me - it's not their thing and I think there might even be a bit of competition lurking under there. I feel very observed. Now I am older, wiser and wrinklier, I am better able to screen it out, but when you have a small baby or toddler it can be overwhelming.

Hang in there. You are doing a great job.

Samamfia · 14/11/2024 09:00

From what you’ve said, she sounds like quite a private, introverted person. The excessive politeness when first meeting you is a sign of someone who’s shy and maybe not very socially comfortable. That sort of shyness can come across as aloofness, and I can see how it could be exacerbated by the stress of a new baby (and all the attendant invasions of privacy that come with that - poking, prodding, doctors seeing things, the sense of your body being shared etc).

Do you think it’s possible that this is nothing to do with any feelings about you specifically, but just increased social withdrawal and need for privacy? That would explain keeping her own parents, who she’s naturally going to be more comfortable around, close.

As others have said, I would just ask her - but broach the subject very gently. Don’t go in with “Why are you treating me differently?” or “don’t you like me?” as that might increase her withdrawal from you.

Cornishclio · 14/11/2024 08:12

Have you ever voiced any regret that your son has to work such long hours presumably for financial reasons as she is a SAHM so only one income coming in? Reading your post there is a lot of mention of him not having much time so maybe subconsciously she feels you are criticising her for not working and enabling him to spend more time at home or with family.

Fingerscrossedfor2021HK · 14/11/2024 07:47

lemonstolemonade · 13/11/2024 22:52

I reckon that there must be other comments.

The C section one, the assumption that a baby will definitely nap at a particular time etc.

Your DIL might be quite oversensitive. She has gone from having a career of her own to giving hers up - and it sounds as if she either had to give it up or have seriously bullet proof childcare that assumed only she would be the one to work even if she wanted to. It sounds as if she enjoys being a SAHM, but it also sounds as if it is also kind of a scenario in which her choices might be constrained. Maybe, as your son is so successful, she is a bit oversensitive about being a successful mum. Try to have some empathy for her too.

You could be describing me! Successful husband who works all hours and travels a lot. Gave up a legal career (that I hated but was v successful at - earning close to half a million per year) and now I’m at home covered in mashed veggies and singing nursery rhymes to my two. I constantly feel like I’m an inadequate mother and my in laws sometimes compound this - my first is a picky eater and quite a sensitive child. My in laws are always commenting on it. I hate it and it makes me not want to see them. My own parents are kindness personified.

nationalsausagefund · 14/11/2024 06:47

OutboundName · 12/11/2024 21:11

When I first met my in laws ten years ago, I was generally relaxed and well rested and calm so I was able to be chatty and engaging. Now, years later with DC and a much more demanding job, I'm mostly exhausted and my social battery is empty much of the time. So I find i just have less energy for that sort of thing. It's not about any other people or anything they did, I just have less capacity for it than I did before. I engage less with everyone now! Maybe this helps? It might not be you or anything you've done but rather the change in her circumstances over time.

Yes! With my own family I can click into the years we’ve had together, lots in common, I don’t have to be “on” for conversation to flow. With my in-laws, we’re very different and it’s effort – my MIL would definitely ask how long the DC nap for or whatever because we have nothing in common, the kids are the common ground, but it’s not very interesting to talk about. And child sleep is such a minefield, those questions often lead to surprise, judgement, unwanted advice. For me, chat about the children is indicative of how little she knows me and how hard work that is; and life with small kids, especially away from home, is already hard work!

Aside from the drive, is your house easy to visit: eg my parents put up a travel cot and high chair before we arrive, buy in the blue milk, have craft materials and enjoy our visits. MIL has an untrained dog with no crate or safety gate, doesn’t put the central heating on, no travel cot so we have to jam pack the car, and doesn’t eat vegetables so we have to arrive with fresh food – it is genuinely harder work. But I wouldn’t want to tell her that as we’re not close, it could be hurtful; DP wouldn’t as they’re not close; so we would blame the journey (which tbf is a day in length).

Could there be something like that at play that puts them off visiting – dogs, unfenced pond, comments on kids’ sleep (I visit my dad less as his new partner is obsessed with asking if they slept through then looking faux-baffled that excited children fed ice cream and staying somewhere novel have woken up), you’re vegan and the kids subsist on mince, etc etc?

Fingerscrossedfor2021HK · 14/11/2024 06:21

CocoDC · 13/11/2024 11:22

Lol. Do you have any idea what Housekeepers do? Dil will literally have no housework beyond direct childcare to do. cooking, laundry, is all sorted and this housekeeper comes 3 days a week which is a lot. But I guess she needs it if she’s driving 4 hours a day multiple times a week to see her DP.

I have a live in housekeeper, plus a daily cleaner and a driver and I do plenty of housework with 2 children! If you like a tidy and ordered home there is lots to do even with full time help!

Henrysmycat · 14/11/2024 05:56

The mental gymnastic people do around here, to excuse horrid behaviour to their in-laws is astounding.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 14/11/2024 00:23

ThomasPatrickKeatingsDegas · 13/11/2024 23:27

I agree with this. That and OP making a point of mentioning the C-section comment makes me think she subconsciously knows she hit a nerve with dil commenting on her birth preferences.

I’d like to hear the dils side. I was so polite and generous to my inlaws, it wasn’t so I could suck them in, as some posters have suggested this dil has, it was how I am. However years of domineering, rude and belittling comments have worn me down, and one day I snapped and went no contact.

I suspect it’s death by a thousand cuts @helpamilout . Throughout your posts I can feel dripping disapproval and I 💯 bet dil knows this. I also feel you have definitely offended her. I think it will take some very honest self reflection to think about whether you have been as generous hearted and kind as you say you have been.

I agree. There are little nods to it all being down to the bad DIL
"Yes, I guess DS could take the kids away even if she doesn't "allow" but I'm guessing he doesn't want to go against her"

This seems fabricated in your head OP to paint her in a negative way but maybe, just maybe, they're working and parenting and just CBA visiting. Maybe it's your son who is the problem

auderesperare · 14/11/2024 00:20

I think she might feel you are competing with her for her husband’s affection. I’d hate my MIL to bring a home made cake every time she visited- especially if I couldn’t cook. It would feel like trying to hard and rubbing my nose in it. There may be things you do and say, references to your son’s childhood that make her feel inadequate.
Or it may be a personality clash. She’s young. In time she may change and when the novelty of looking after v young kids wears thin, she may leap at the offer to babysit or have the kids for the night.
I’d stop trying too much in the meantime and just accept that she’s not close to you. You don’t need to keep fishing for reasons. You have great relationships with your son and your other DCs. Focus on these. In time your GC will become more independent and you will have a relationship with them which doesn’t depend entirely on their mother. Be polite and lovely as ever but don’t offer anything or bring anything or buy gifts for a while, just listen to her. Really listen. What does she need, who is she as a person? You are seeing her purely as the (difficult) gatekeeper to the GC and that may be a bit insulting.
I’m probably your age. Before I was married I had a wonderful relationship with my MIL. I loved visiting her. She was a delight. After marriage she was ok but less warm. She made it clear I had “taken her son away”. After I had kids, I was wholly expendable. She once told me I was not “of the blood” and my children and husband were. It was v hurtful. (I am sure you are not like this but my MIL would have been amazed if she thought she’d hurt me). Neither of my SILs could deal with her and both their marriages collapsed.
Despite all this and the strain it put on my own marriage, I still think of her fondly. She was an amazing character and I gave the eulogy at her funeral.
sometimes in inter-family relationships, as in interior design, less is more.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 14/11/2024 00:12

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 21:32

@UserNameNotAvailable9 I don't give her or my son the analysis - the analysis is for MN only.
When she says things like "there's no space to stay over" in a house with 2 spare rooms, I just politely smile and nod but it's difficult not to wonder about the 2 spare rooms. Or when she says the kids can't go to activities an hour away because 1hr there and 1hr back is too much for one day, I'll just agree and say "yeah it's a lot isn't it" or "yes you're right, the fresh air in the park instead will do them good" but of course it's hard not to realise she regularly does a 2hr journey in one day.

I have had my PIL stay in a b&b down the road the last few times they've visited (3.5hrs away).
I have done this because;

  1. I sleep in a separate room from DH and we both usually end up with a child in each of our beds
  2. we only have one bathroom so I find 4 adults and 2 kids sharing one bathroom way too much especially in the morning when everyone is trying to do their morning poop..
  3. MIL is quite full on and also a bit silly. She calls herself "mad" etc and I actually just find myself needing a break and have to go off and sit quietly in my bedroom for a while because I get so overstimulated!

My advice is to suggest visits but stay in a b&b

NoisyDenimShaker · 14/11/2024 00:04

helpamilout · 13/11/2024 20:47

@Pinkyandperkyofyesteryear this made me cry... it's so true. Oh and I completely recognise the "gifts have to be cleared" - I got a bubble machine once and got a stern look from DIL who then told me she was planning to get them one for Christmas. It was March. Any gift I give she looks at very closely, asks a million question (is this cotton? 100% cotton? Where did you buy it? When did you buy it?) and often puts away when GC reaches for it "I'll give it to you later"

I know someone exactly like this about child gifts, and she's a cold, selfish person who doesn't want her ILs anywhere near her. I'm sorry, OP. Your DIL just sounds as if she is, at heart, a cold, selfish person, not to mention a total pain. Who the hell claims not to have room for someone to stay when they clearly have 1 or 2 guestrooms? I've come across a handful of women in my life who are absolutely lovely to their male partners and not so lovely to most others. Maybe she's like that.

NoisyDenimShaker · 14/11/2024 00:01

ThomasPatrickKeatingsDegas · 13/11/2024 23:27

I agree with this. That and OP making a point of mentioning the C-section comment makes me think she subconsciously knows she hit a nerve with dil commenting on her birth preferences.

I’d like to hear the dils side. I was so polite and generous to my inlaws, it wasn’t so I could suck them in, as some posters have suggested this dil has, it was how I am. However years of domineering, rude and belittling comments have worn me down, and one day I snapped and went no contact.

I suspect it’s death by a thousand cuts @helpamilout . Throughout your posts I can feel dripping disapproval and I 💯 bet dil knows this. I also feel you have definitely offended her. I think it will take some very honest self reflection to think about whether you have been as generous hearted and kind as you say you have been.

I don't find the OP's comments dripping with disapproval at all.

Lavender14 · 13/11/2024 23:49

I think it's much more than just a room though isn't it...? She needs to 'host' you. From what you've said your son is unlikely to be there to facilitate that which means that will all fall to her as well as the parenting etc. I also think people tend to feel more pressure on themselves when hosting in laws than their own family. I always got on really well with mine for the most part but I would have felt more pressure to cook and host and clean and entertain when they were visiting whereas with my own family I don't really care about their opinions as much so it's much more take me as they find me. I don't think it's fair to expect your dil to take on all that extra work - especially when you don't seem to be able to recognise the work that will go into it. Even with a cleaner etc there will still be things she needs to do to stay on top of things.

I also think I understand what she means about the driving... if I was to do a 2 hr drive with ds then I'd time it with his nap so that would be totally fine and easy enough done. But to do two 1 hr drives would mean he'll have an extra nap in the car on the way home later and I'd be up all night with him so that wouldn't work for me either. So in that respect I don't think she's being unreasonable.

I think you're maybe reading into things as a slight against you that are actually just her trying to survive and protect her routine. Not saying that applies to everything but certainly with a few things you've mentioned- as a parent with a child of a similar age I'd do the same.