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To be confused why DIL has suddenly changed in how she treats me

668 replies

helpamilout · 12/11/2024 20:23

My son is in his mid-30s and has been with his wife for nearly a decade. They dated for 3-4 years before getting married. When they were dating, she was lovely—chatty, friendly and extremely polite, almost overly so, often saying things like, “Do you mind if I use your bathroom?” or “Thank you very much” for even small gestures.

After they got engaged, everything still seemed fine. But a couple of weeks before the wedding, they told us she was six weeks pregnant, and that’s when things began to change. She became more private and somewhat secretive about the pregnancy (which is of course her right—it was just very different from how she had been before). She was quieter in conversations and didn’t reach out to us as much as she used to. I don’t believe we did anything to cause this; we avoided giving unsolicited advice and tried to be supportive. The only thing I can think of is that I once mentioned C-sections having longer recovery times when she shared she was considering it, but that seems minor.

We also expressed that we were very excited to meet the baby, though we didn’t pressure them with specific timing. We ended up meeting our grandchild when they were one month old, while her mom met the baby in the hospital and her dad when the baby was just three days old. When she was pregnant with their second, they didn’t tell us until she was 20 weeks along, even though it seemed her close friends already knew.

They never ask us to babysit but often ask her parents. They visit her parents once a month, but they only come to see us once or twice a year, despite us living the same distance away (a couple of hours, though in the opposite direction). I do see them a bit more often because I go to visit them, but they never invite me to stay overnight, whereas her mom often stays with them.

It’s perhaps worth noting that my daughter-in-law is a stay-at-home mom, and my son works long hours, sometimes on weekends. While arranging visits should ideally be a joint effort, it often falls on her since my son can’t really insist on her seeing us when he isn’t around. My son does make an effort to plan visits with us when he’s off work, but when I do visit, she seems distant and disengaged. I’ve heard her mention that the drive to us is “far,” yet she drives the same distance to her parents regularly. During visits, she often seems uninterested and sometimes responds quite shortly. For instance, when I asked how long the baby typically naps, she just shrugged and said, “Depends.” And when I brought a homemade banana cake for everyone to share, she laughed and said he doesn’t like bananas anymore.

I’m confused what has caused this. I’ve asked my son but he says everything is fine. Should I ask her? If so, how? Can MNers see what I’ve made done wrong or help me guess?

OP posts:
ASimpleLampoon · 15/11/2024 13:39

I think you have answered your own question.

She's a stay at home mum

Son works long hours

It falls to her to make the arrangements

You need to be encouraging your son to take on this particular mental load. Your son needs to make the time and effort to facilitate your relationship with your grandchild.

helpamilout · 15/11/2024 13:34

Blahdeblah24 · 15/11/2024 13:21

@helpamilout reading through your threads a simmering resentment towards your DIL is apparent & just as you sense an atmosphere when you are together she probably does too which is why she only wants to be around you when her husband/your son is there.

It would help to know:

  1. Did your DS's twin or his sister who lives nearby them get to meet your sons DC1 or DC2 before you?
  2. You have offered to babysit 'many, many times' how old are the DC involved?
  3. When your son only has 2 free weekends a month do you think it's fair to expect to see him on more than one of those?
  1. Did your DS's twin or his sister who lives nearby them get to meet your sons DC1 or DC2 before you?
    None of them were "allowed" to meet the baby until after a month. DS said his brother will meet the baby, DIL said she'd like to be recovered before ... in short DS just arranged to meet his twin on a walk when he took the baby out / DIL was resting at home and informed DIL of this rather than asked her permission. I know this led to a big argument.

  2. You have offered to babysit 'many, many times' how old are the DC involved?
    The older DC is 3, the youngest will turn 1 next month.

  3. When your son only has 2 free weekends a month do you think it's fair to expect to see him on more than one of those?
    I've explained that it really varies from month to month. When he is working 2 full weekends (rare) then yes it's not fair for us to occupy one whole weekend of those 2 weekends... but as I've also said we rarely stay overnight or see them both days, it's more of "has happened occasionally" rather than the norm.
    If he's working a full weekends or one weekend each of 2 weekends, I don't think there's anything wrong with us coming for a day once a month or even staying overnight in a nearby hotel (which, again, as I've said, rarely happens). And there's certainly nothing wrong with DIL making the effort to be polite. There's also nothing wrong with us visiting for an hour or two during the week if we're in London anyway, regardless of whether DS is there or not.

OP posts:
ABirdsEyeView · 15/11/2024 13:33

@Blahdeblah24 how does one not feel resentment at someone who treats them as dil treats the OP?
I thought the OPs posts have been fair and measured. Buts she's not going to love someone who so clearly treats her like shit!

helpamilout · 15/11/2024 13:28

lemonstolemonade · 15/11/2024 13:15

Did your DIL have a c section in the end? Did she wait until she felt recovered because you were negative about the recovery?

She didn't have a c section in either case, 1st or 2nd. She decided from very early on in her pregnancy that she wanted a vaginal birth (and freely volunteered this info without me asking) if things go to plan. Then she shared the birth story quite openly - it was a vaginal birth.

OP posts:
Blahdeblah24 · 15/11/2024 13:21

@helpamilout reading through your threads a simmering resentment towards your DIL is apparent & just as you sense an atmosphere when you are together she probably does too which is why she only wants to be around you when her husband/your son is there.

It would help to know:

  1. Did your DS's twin or his sister who lives nearby them get to meet your sons DC1 or DC2 before you?
  2. You have offered to babysit 'many, many times' how old are the DC involved?
  3. When your son only has 2 free weekends a month do you think it's fair to expect to see him on more than one of those?
lemonstolemonade · 15/11/2024 13:15

Did your DIL have a c section in the end? Did she wait until she felt recovered because you were negative about the recovery?

thepariscrimefiles · 15/11/2024 12:25

helpamilout · 15/11/2024 11:55

A few people asking about wealth gap - yes. DIL's family were able to privately educate 2 kids, 5-6 holidays a year family. We had all 4 children in grammar schools, 1-2 holidays per year.

Questions about DS working hard, DIL being a SAHM, does she want to be a SAHM, is he happy working this hard. Even in the early years DIL would say that her main goal is to become a mum, she'd love to be a SAHM, doesn't like nurseries for kids. I've never heard her say that this has to be the case or she refuses to work but she's commented many times that she would LIKE to be a SAHM. And, from what I can tell, she's a great mum - very loving to her children, seems to really enjoy time with them, patient, caring. DS was always very driven, hard working, ambitious. He started the business before they met, he's always worked hard on it, he worked a similar schedule when they were getting engaged / married. I would assume they both knew what they were getting into - DIL presumably saw that DS was working long and not always predictable hours, that he was very dedicated, but also that he's making enough for her to be a SAHM and live comfortably. DS presumably heard the many many mentions of her wanting to be a SAHM and realised that's what would make her happy. So I don't think in this scenario either of them wants to change up their work / activity / level of business.

Someone mentioned that since I have other children in London maybe DS and DIL assume I should stay there... but DD1 is my child in the same way DS is. They live in opposite sides of town (although closer from each other than from me to London). I do it occasionally.

Also people asking what's the issue with 1 visit per month. It's the whole thing together: the atmosphere on the visits, the short responses, the not inviting us for a month (a question on why we didn't ask - we didn't want to push any further. We said before the birth that we are ready and very excited to meet the baby, but don't want to invite ourselves or make anyone uncomfortable so will wait for an invitation when they are ready), treating presents from us like we've brought bombs into the house...

Oh and the question about whether I asked my son about why I didn't visit for a month. He said (even during the month, in private WhatsApp chat with us or phone calls rather than group WhatsApp) that he is desperate for us to meet but DIL wants to be fully recovered physically, at some points he even said she wants to wait until her 6 week check but in practice it was earlier than 6 weeks. Presumably he insisted his parents meet the baby sooner than 6 weeks, although I'm unsure what changed.

It is obvious that your DIL doesn't really feel comfortable with you and I don't think that there is anything you can do about that. Raising it with your son or your DIL will probably just make things worse.

If you try and enjoy the good things about the monthly visits and don't put any pressure on your son or your DIL, hopefully things will improve as the children get older and your DIL feels more relaxed. Maybe then she will be happy to let your son visit you with the children.

Some posters may tell you to pull back and 'wait until your DIL needs you more than you need her e.g. for childcare or babysitting'. Given your DIL's closeness to her own parents and that fact that your son/DIL and her family are pretty wealthy, I don't think that will happen.

Apolloneuro · 15/11/2024 12:03

You’re not going to like this @helpamilout but I don’t think anything is going to change. The DIL prefers her family and your son doesn’t have enough time or clout to intervene.

I think you’re going to have to change your mindset and be happy with what you’ve got, and remember that grandchildren grow up and you can develop a good, independent relationship with them in the future.

I can’t remember if you have other grandchildren. If you do, focus on them for the near future.

You have very little influence over the situation, in reality, I’m afraid.

Apolloneuro · 15/11/2024 11:59

That’s so sad about meeting the baby, when he wanted you to. He needs to put his big boy pants on, sounds like.

helpamilout · 15/11/2024 11:55

A few people asking about wealth gap - yes. DIL's family were able to privately educate 2 kids, 5-6 holidays a year family. We had all 4 children in grammar schools, 1-2 holidays per year.

Questions about DS working hard, DIL being a SAHM, does she want to be a SAHM, is he happy working this hard. Even in the early years DIL would say that her main goal is to become a mum, she'd love to be a SAHM, doesn't like nurseries for kids. I've never heard her say that this has to be the case or she refuses to work but she's commented many times that she would LIKE to be a SAHM. And, from what I can tell, she's a great mum - very loving to her children, seems to really enjoy time with them, patient, caring. DS was always very driven, hard working, ambitious. He started the business before they met, he's always worked hard on it, he worked a similar schedule when they were getting engaged / married. I would assume they both knew what they were getting into - DIL presumably saw that DS was working long and not always predictable hours, that he was very dedicated, but also that he's making enough for her to be a SAHM and live comfortably. DS presumably heard the many many mentions of her wanting to be a SAHM and realised that's what would make her happy. So I don't think in this scenario either of them wants to change up their work / activity / level of business.

Someone mentioned that since I have other children in London maybe DS and DIL assume I should stay there... but DD1 is my child in the same way DS is. They live in opposite sides of town (although closer from each other than from me to London). I do it occasionally.

Also people asking what's the issue with 1 visit per month. It's the whole thing together: the atmosphere on the visits, the short responses, the not inviting us for a month (a question on why we didn't ask - we didn't want to push any further. We said before the birth that we are ready and very excited to meet the baby, but don't want to invite ourselves or make anyone uncomfortable so will wait for an invitation when they are ready), treating presents from us like we've brought bombs into the house...

Oh and the question about whether I asked my son about why I didn't visit for a month. He said (even during the month, in private WhatsApp chat with us or phone calls rather than group WhatsApp) that he is desperate for us to meet but DIL wants to be fully recovered physically, at some points he even said she wants to wait until her 6 week check but in practice it was earlier than 6 weeks. Presumably he insisted his parents meet the baby sooner than 6 weeks, although I'm unsure what changed.

OP posts:
CocoDC · 15/11/2024 09:58

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Whiteskies · 15/11/2024 09:49

@LilyBartsHatShop
The OP's husband works full time. The OP is a SAHM. He probably hasn't got a lot of spare time. I said up thread that it is much easier to see family if you are at home all day with little ones. He is probably running hard to stay still if he is the only financial provider.
My niece works out of the home,her husband works from home for himself. She found it hard that he would have his parents round frequently to pick up children from nursery and give them tea etc. She wanted her parents included. He is a nice guy so he made an effort to include them. I suspect many women would not be so nice.

Apolloneuro · 15/11/2024 09:46

I’m afraid I think it’s as simple as the fact that @helpamilout‘s son is at work a lot and the DIL doesn’t feel like she wants to socialise with her MIL without him.

LilyBartsHatShop · 15/11/2024 09:40

I don't understand where other posters are getting this information that DiL is stopping her husband organising time for him and kids to see OP?
OP has said several times that her son organises her monthly visits and sometimes organises for her to stay in a hotel.
It sounds to me like the ball is very much in his court. If he wanted his mum around more often he'd organise more visits.

CocoDC · 15/11/2024 09:23

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ToSleepPurchancetoDream · 15/11/2024 08:58

Also raising it with her, places your son in a very difficult position of being between his wife and mother. A terrible thing for him.

And wives always 'win' in those situations. (No one really wins, but the husband and children definitely lose when a grandparent relationship is lost.)

It sounds like your son loves you and makes an effort to involve you. That is lovely.
Let him continue to do that and show you appreciate that even if you are sad you don't see them as much as you would like.

ToSleepPurchancetoDream · 15/11/2024 08:53

She is being very thoughtless.

She's organised her life as she wants and it doesn't matter to her if you are excluded because you're not her mother.

I think both spouses do have a responsibility to support and engage with the relationship with their in laws. That should be viewed as being part of the wider family. And while she's a sahm she should pick up more responsibility for this.
She should be doing it for her husband and her kids if not for you.

But she's not. Because she doesn't want to.

It's not necessarily that you've done anything wrong, it's just she doesn't want to. She has more important priorities.

That's hard
But I wouldn't raise it with her.
That could actually fracture the relationship.

I'd try to make the most of the time you do have with them. Make it a happy time, be positive and supportive.

This period will pass and she will probably as her children grow become less narrowly focused and she'll appreciate the relationship in different ways.

I'm sorry this is hard for you. It's very unfair, but don't make it worse. If you can maintain a positive even distant relationship there is always hope you'll become closer again.

Whiteskies · 15/11/2024 08:52

Just listening to a Democrat talking on Radio 4 about the reasons they lost the election. On of the reasons he suggests is the narrative of ´Toxic Masculinity' they focused on during the election. It didn't do them any favours with the male or even the female electorate. He pointed out that it doesn't dilute concern for women by acknowledging the issues faced by men.
The hopefully declining number of women in the UK who don't work outside the home and act as gatekeepers to their children, would do well to think about the whole family unit and not deliberately exclude the male side of the family.

Whiteskies · 15/11/2024 08:38

On the one hand many women want men to be equally involved in childcare and to pull their weight. They want their men to be emotionally available. However, there are women who still do their best to be gatekeepers for their children and no one is allowed near them without their say so. Times are changing. There us now an expectation that after divorce or separation, Dads will have the children 50% if the time. Twenty years ago that was very rare. There is increasing pressure from the State that men take responsibility for their children.
I have some friends who see grandchildren regularly now that their son and wife have separated. They do lots of school pick ups and babysitting.
I think making life difficult for a Dad who is the sole financial provider for his family and has far less time with his children and also to see his parents, is cruel and alienating.
Men who are trained by their wives to let go of emotional attachments to their birth family are going to be the ones who walk out on their wives and partners.
It is short sighted of women to put barriers to cut off in laws. One never knows what is round the corner and women who claim that it is 'biology' to exclude in laws in favour of their own parents are conveniently forgetting that most of the world has traditionally favoured the male line. It is not inevitable for a woman to exclude her husband's family but mean spirited and shortsighted.

ABirdsEyeView · 15/11/2024 07:11

Obviously if their own son has a fractious relationship, things might be less straightforward. But the OPs DS seems to want to see her and OP says it was dil's choice not to tell her about the 2nd pg until 20 weeks. So I think it's more likely the decisions came from dil.
I do feel like a bit of a hypocrite on this thread because I preferred my own parents, saw them far more. There were good reasons why I didn't want my pil to babysit and I did have them visit even when dh was at work , but I do get how dil feels.
I just think that ultimately you do just have to be a bit fair, even if you don't really want to be.

ABirdsEyeView · 15/11/2024 07:04

I think that most of the time it is the new mum who decides. She's just given birth and I'd bet good money that any husband who said he was inviting his parents round, regardless of whether she wanted them there, would be called a bullying, controlling arse on here!
@LilyBartsHatShop I was in hospital when fil visited and it was back in the day before mobile phones so it would have gone through dh. But I was feeling okay and was happy to have him visit. Had I been feeling really ill I'd have delayed visits a bit but not for a month.
My mil was on a work trip but saw the baby within a week.
My own mum was with me during the birth and my dad brought my little siblings to see the baby when he was a couple of hours old, so I would have felt like a right cow saying no to in-laws.

nationalsausagefund · 15/11/2024 06:43

ABirdsEyeView · 14/11/2024 14:15

Assuming nothing went horrifically wrong during the birth and that the in-laws aren't total monsters, I'm pretty sure a new mum can find an hour or so during the first couple of weeks where the grandparents can meet the baby!

I wasn't especially close to my in-laws but I remember the joy on my fils face when he came to the hospital the afternoon following the birth of DS and saw him for the first time. I'm glad he had that tbh, especially as he died a couple of years after. It's mean to deny this to GPs - the new baby is part of their family too.

“A new mum can find an hour or so.” This implies it was all DIL’s decision to delay the baby meeting her MIL; it could have been a mutual choice or OP could have been hanging back waiting for direction.

My parents met my babies on day one. I left DP to arrange things with his parents, they were welcome to show up; he has a difficult relationship with them and it ended up they visited after a month. Nothing to do with me.

LilyBartsHatShop · 15/11/2024 06:13

@ABirdsEyeView Did you organise your in law's visit your newborn?

I remember texting one friend to organise her visit in 2nd or 3rd week, but everyone else who visited in the first month went through DH to arrange.
I agree with @CocoPlum , the few details we've heard about that time seem patchy.
And consistent with DiL being blamed for what is actually DS's decision.

CocoDC · 14/11/2024 14:17

Wellingtonspie · 14/11/2024 13:53

Different cultures raising their children differently instilling the expectations and their values from birth means different outcomes.

In Asian families it is often expected that the children will cover their parents retirements essentially paying them back for raising them. A daughter would go off and marry and then become part of his family to care for his parents. So a daughter is more disposable and less use and is raised to know she will leave the family and join his family.

In England there is not the expectation to essentially pay your parents back for having you. Sons are not required to therefore cover their parents expenses so basically go off and just support their new home. Daughters stay close to their mothers because they are not expected to become the in-laws extra help rather she gets to just stay being her own person.

Across Asia and Africa our cultural practices are built on the central concept of children marrying children. So often mils would lose a dd and gain a dil in the same ceremony (joint marriages, so called low dowry marriages where the male / female siblings married male / female siblings and each female was treated as well as their sil was treated).

Sometimes that resulted in super close relationships - eg my maternal grandmother in Nigeria married at 9 to my grandfather who was 10. Her mil’s 11 year old daughter had just married and she missed her and so poured all of that love in my gran. Love the other dils didn’t receive as they married into the family as adults.

Sometimes it resulted in abuse. Eg my other grandmother married into the family at 16 but her mil was so her eldest sil performed that role. The lady hated her, used to hit her and blame her for things, tried to drown my aunt when she was a baby then pretended it was an accident, and the following year when her son married she treated her similarly aged dil like gold dust to scapegoat my grandmother.

But in every case dils viewed their mils as their dms, their carers, and helpers.

Europe on the other hand had a culture of girls marrying grown men and for a long time (before colonisation) lower life expectancies than Asian countries. The mils were often old or dead and couldn’t help while DMs were younger and so could if they wanted to.

ABirdsEyeView · 14/11/2024 14:15

Assuming nothing went horrifically wrong during the birth and that the in-laws aren't total monsters, I'm pretty sure a new mum can find an hour or so during the first couple of weeks where the grandparents can meet the baby!

I wasn't especially close to my in-laws but I remember the joy on my fils face when he came to the hospital the afternoon following the birth of DS and saw him for the first time. I'm glad he had that tbh, especially as he died a couple of years after. It's mean to deny this to GPs - the new baby is part of their family too.

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