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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that taxpayers should know about civil service procurement contracts

116 replies

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:14

This topic has always made me so uncomfortable and extremely annoyed but today I nearly lost the plot. I’m a civil servant working in a department that deals with public protection. The government sends us millions every year to run the “business” including salaries, housing of the service users, food, healthcare, personal development…etc. We’re a small department made of 4 middle managers and are given less than £7000 per year to use on providing good service and support. This is nowhere near enough and we’re always waiting for the next financial year. We spend hours per month shopping around to make sure that we spend that funding wisely and our service users benefit from it as much as possible, however many times the budget approver declines the purchase request because we are using a different provider than the ones we’re contracted with. They won’t let us buy anything from anyone else as apparently they will be fined. The contractors charge stupidly high prices and definitely aren’t good value for money.

Last week we submitted a request for 150 units from online sellers at a total cost of £1355. This is just under £10 per unit which is brilliant and it means our service users will have the items before Christmas and we still have some more money to spend on other things. The approver declined the purchase and asked us to use the contracted provider charging £27.50 per the SAME unit which is totalling £4125 and £20 delivery fee (the cheek of it!!). We are deflated and feel so let down by this corrupt system as this means that we can only buy for 54 service users and the rest will have to wait until the next budget is received next May.

Our service users are mainly people from very deprived backgrounds, with complex mental health issues, traumas and addictions. How can you keep on making cuts to save money and yet sign contracts with wealthy businesses that are constantly salivating over profits? AIBU to think that these contracts should end and we should be allowed to shop around given the tight budgets that we’re given?

OP posts:
Enchente · 12/11/2024 21:21

DogInATent · 12/11/2024 21:17

It happens in the private sector too.

But there is a very big problem with allowing staff to just buy things cheap online, how much do you know about product safety standards? How good are you at avoiding fake products before you purchase them?

(and a good chunk of the extra you pay is no doubt being credited back to the purchasing department, and the company that got the supply contract had to spend a fortune tendering and supplying paperwork for every product on the list - but those are different problems)

True. Also true is that £7k budget and expenses of just over £1k is not exactly the same level of risk as procuring all the PPE for the NHS.

Proportionality.

Flowerrrr · 12/11/2024 21:18

Yeah just let whoever spend public money with no process or regulations, sounds great.

GoBackToTheStart · 12/11/2024 21:18

As an example: I heard on the radio poor delivery of one project does not mean disqualification from future tender processes. That is to say Fujitsu continue to ‘deliver’ government IT contracts and I think only recently stopped tendering. WTAF.

The Procurement Act which is coming in force in Feb (was delayed from October) is changing the law so that poor past performance on other contracts can be considered and suppliers barred from tendering.

DogInATent · 12/11/2024 21:17

It happens in the private sector too.

But there is a very big problem with allowing staff to just buy things cheap online, how much do you know about product safety standards? How good are you at avoiding fake products before you purchase them?

(and a good chunk of the extra you pay is no doubt being credited back to the purchasing department, and the company that got the supply contract had to spend a fortune tendering and supplying paperwork for every product on the list - but those are different problems)

Enchente · 12/11/2024 21:10

The whole ‘it might not make sense to switch’ is bollocks. This would never fly in the private sector, who also care about quality and security of supply and all those other standards. It’s waste - end of and I am pleased you are challenging.

As an example: I heard on the radio poor delivery of one project does not mean disqualification from future tender processes. That is to say Fujitsu continue to ‘deliver’ government IT contracts and I think only recently stopped tendering. WTAF.

Wellfuckmesideways · 12/11/2024 21:10

Apart from what previous posters have mentioned re vetting etc, quite often there is a reduction added at the end of the financial year or end of contract which is applied across the total number of the item ordered so Team A orders 10 items, Team B orders 15, Team C orders 20, none of the teams know about what the other is ordering so centrally any discounts negotiated through the tendering process is then applied reducing the overall unit cost of the item.

hamsandyams · 12/11/2024 21:09

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:48

I’m not sure sourcing things ethically means that the price should triple? Those providers are selling the same items with the same branding and same colours as Amazon or other catalog retailers. But way more expensive.

But there are so many fakes sold on Amazon, it’s impossible to do sufficient due diligence to guarantee authentic and good products each time.

There are some bizarre rules - my husband works for a company selling a certain product to the NHS, except they won’t buy it from him as he sells with a one year warranty. He instead sells it to a third party who sells to the NHS with a three year warranty at 1.5x the price as he just increases the price to cover a potential failure rate and make a profit. The NHS would certainly be better off buying cheaper with a one year warranty and replacing any items that happen to fail - but their policies prohibit this.

I think it’s called the goodheart rule - rules brought in with good intentions but that are ultimately detrimental. However when implemented at scale they may end up being beneficial for the whole NHS/civil service .

Ytcsghisn · 12/11/2024 21:03

Next time any moron says that public services are underfunded, they should be shown this.

Public services are not underfunded. They are bloated, wasteful and criminally inept. Civil servants are increasingly corrupt and almost entirely incompetent. The government and scummy MPs are robbing the taxpayer and stealing openly. Giving public money away to their friends.

If you think otherwise, you are naive.

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 21:00

lasagnelle · 12/11/2024 20:55

Do you not have a whistleblowing hotline

Apparently it’s not a breach of any rule so ..

OP posts:
TheRealSlimShandy · 12/11/2024 21:00

Because the approved supplier list is vetted. They go through a process and have to prove things like financial stability (so they don’t go under with your money), anti slavery policies etc.

Are there dodgy practices within procurement - very likely. At the very least “friends” are notified that the contracts will be available and are no doubt scored highly on the non tangible parts of the process. But as a concept procurement is sound. You have overall cost savings - and the suppliers are sound(ish).

Ytcsghisn · 12/11/2024 21:00

Feelingstrange2 · 12/11/2024 20:17

Write to the Treasury. Write to Rachel Reeves.

Explain the situation but emphasise if this is happening all over the CS the waste is enormous.

I can't help although I'd be happy to pen a letter to RR.if you would.like me too saying I've heard this is happening and ask her to investigate so she can change the policy and save a fortune.

Edited

Yeah write to the socialists so they spend other people’s money better. Said no one ever.

On the other hand, write to the Daily Mail or the Telegraph. Blow the whistle in the public interest. Name your department, send evidence. Then watch the corrupt civil servants and politicians try and cover their arses for stealing from the taxpayer.

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:59

Yes 7k is all what we’re given. We don’t manage staff or budgets. We are called middle managers but are actually specialists supporting specific service users. We’ve been given that amount to support those on our caseload.

OP posts:
Mistralli · 12/11/2024 20:57

Public sector procurement is a nightmare. So many frustrating rules than mean that 9/10 contracts definitely end up with a worse supplier - but one good at jumping through the tendering hoops.

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:55

Fizzadora · 12/11/2024 20:51

You're tilting at windmills @Atlanticwinds

Ha just noticed your username OP. You should harness it. I expect to see a complete overhaul of government procurement in the next 6 months.

Ha I made my username whilst watching the weather forecast 😉

OP posts:
lasagnelle · 12/11/2024 20:55

Do you not have a whistleblowing hotline

EmeraldRoulette · 12/11/2024 20:54

SensibleSigma · 12/11/2024 20:30

It would help if you explained the rationale behind approved suppliers.

I don’t think anyone can really grasp why you can’t buy from anywhere at all.

The rationale is government gravy trains and creating more government jobs

i thought people knew about all this tbh.

edit - to be clear I don't approve of this. I just feel it's hopeless because even the Tories wouldn't address it. I can't see Labour going anywhere near it.

Merryoldgoat · 12/11/2024 20:54

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:50

Sorry I don’t get your point? My salary is nowhere near 10 times the budget

Is your whole departmental budget £7k? I’m assuming you have other parts of your job, otherwise 4 people managing such a small budget makes zero sense…

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:53

wizzler · 12/11/2024 20:41

I imagine that the procurement process is run in line with procurement compliance guidelines and all your contacted suppliers are vetted to ensure that they meet certain standards . The procurement team will send out invitations to tender and then select from whichever suppliers respond. However it sounds as if there is a marked difference between the price you pay and the price at which the product is freely available on the open market, so definitely worth asking the procurement team when this contract is next due for review. Escalate if you don't get a sensible response

Sometimes just putting concerns in a well written balanced email can be enough to prompt some action.

I will do so very soon … but people who worked there for decades are laughing at us for being annoyed! They say it will never change so just submit another request with their suggested price as you’re getting nowhere.

OP posts:
Fizzadora · 12/11/2024 20:51

You're tilting at windmills @Atlanticwinds

Ha just noticed your username OP. You should harness it. I expect to see a complete overhaul of government procurement in the next 6 months.

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:50

twomanyfrogsinabox · 12/11/2024 20:37

Four middle managers to handle a budget of £7,000 aren't at least three of you redundant? Surely your salaries should be used for the good causes? I guess the salaries are 10 x the budget.

Edited

Sorry I don’t get your point? My salary is nowhere near 10 times the budget

OP posts:
MarketValveForks · 12/11/2024 20:50

Write to your MP and copy in Rachel Reeves, asking your MP to speak to RR about it - Members of Parliament are supposed to be your point of contact with government and a request via your MP gets more attention.

Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:49

Apolitia · 12/11/2024 20:36

I’m sorry I don’t follow this at all. Presumably the supplier contracts are for more than just the supply of (whatever item you’re referring to). Generally contracts would be expected to secure better value overall than if you bought the nation’s consumables off the open market. Plus there are public procurement rules.

You would think so …

OP posts:
Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:48

TerribleGardener · 12/11/2024 20:30

I know what you mean (I'm also in civil service) but the specific suppliers/contractors on the roster I deal with have been vetted to ensure they are ethical, aren't using slave Labour or polluting the environment. So we could get stuff cheaper elsewhere but should we be? Not sure if that applies to your situation, just saying that's ours.

I’m not sure sourcing things ethically means that the price should triple? Those providers are selling the same items with the same branding and same colours as Amazon or other catalog retailers. But way more expensive.

OP posts:
Atlanticwinds · 12/11/2024 20:44

SensibleSigma · 12/11/2024 20:30

It would help if you explained the rationale behind approved suppliers.

I don’t think anyone can really grasp why you can’t buy from anywhere at all.

Neither can I. But that’s the truth.

OP posts:
wizzler · 12/11/2024 20:41

I imagine that the procurement process is run in line with procurement compliance guidelines and all your contacted suppliers are vetted to ensure that they meet certain standards . The procurement team will send out invitations to tender and then select from whichever suppliers respond. However it sounds as if there is a marked difference between the price you pay and the price at which the product is freely available on the open market, so definitely worth asking the procurement team when this contract is next due for review. Escalate if you don't get a sensible response

Sometimes just putting concerns in a well written balanced email can be enough to prompt some action.