SIL describing herself as "retired" pissing me off

This entire thread is actually bullshit. Using appropriately qualified and experienced childcare for your children during working hours is not a big deal. It does not abnegate you from so many of the responsibilities of being a parent, not should it.

There is no question over whether or not it is more difficult for the WOHM. Even when it comes to parent/teacher meetings, they are at the mercy of their managers to get the time off to attend. They have to use annual leave to do so. The SAHM is doing nothing else, so it's no problem!

All the shit about WOHMs being "jealous" of SAHMs is just so much crap. I never wanted to stay at home. I adore my children, but I never wanted to be a Blue Peter mother, and all the painting/baking/crawling around the floor parenting would have bored me shitless. One of my dearest friends was a SAHM for 20 years. She was well educated and qualified, and I always thought she was mad.

She finally re-entered the workforce and now she is concerned that she has shit all pension and she is working at a level far below the level she was when she shipped out.

I am so glad I stayed in the workplace, and paid into my pension, and I will be able to live well in retirement and support my adult children when they need it.

Well it kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it? I don't care what it "reveals" about me. It actually reveals fuck all.

How many women would use such poor grammar in the workplace??

But was the nursery doing any more than supervising your children when you couldn't? Was the nursery taking them to afterschool activities - swimming lessons, music lessons, Scouts/Guides etc, helping them with their homework, buying them all the shit that schools demand for plays, this that and the other, making sure they were suitably togged up for non-uniform day, World Book Day?

"Working parents probably have better grammar too..."

You reveal a lot about yourself with that statement.

Not sure how you get to that conclusion either, unless you believe all women in work are well educated and all those who choose to sah are not.

Well as a working parent, I would have thought you would appreciate that working mums shoulder a lot of the responsibility of childrearing while having fewer hours to devote to it? Childcare only covers so much. It doesn't deal with homeworks, out of school activities, doctor's appts/dentist appts, buying their shoes, buying the school uniform etc etc etc.

I haven't seen working parents "being particularly nasty and thinking their superiors for having a paid job and pretending they do more then SAHM" [sic]. I haven't seen one single working mum saying that, but anyone with half a braincell can surely see that working mums have to fit a lot of responsibilities into their out of work hours that SAHMs can deal with during the working day!

Working parents probably have better grammar too...

I can't remember which Hollywood actor said at an awards evening that she couldn't do her job and be a mother without an unsung group of people who worked looking after her kids round the clock to give her flexibility and and amazing career.

"It's interesting that the SAHMs commenting are determined that the only reason people could think it's silly is just because we're all so jealous of them, though."

This isn't true - I'm a sahp and don't think every wohp is jealous. I think some might be and others not. And this probably depends on satisfaction levels with their own jobs/lives. And largely I don't worry about what most people's opinions are of me. Can me arrogant,but there are only a few people in life I care enough about, to be bothered what they think. I don't believe many people choose sah if they're overly concerned with public opinion, since sah is viewed as largely worthless, since it doesn't directly generate taxable income.
I have done both and think each choice have ups and downs.

This is a daft conversation.

Everyone has my basic respect. I don’t respect SAHM’s just because they are SAHM’s.

Do I respect those who work in childcare more? Yes because like I said, they provide a service and they are essential so I can work.

My point is what I originally said. It’s different.

You need to be qualified, you are judged by ofsted and you are responsible for other peoples children.

As a working parent, they are more valuable to me because they provide a service that ensures I can work. A SAHM looks after her own children.

It is unique to sahm when they are doing it 24/7. Do you really not respect sahm at all? So much sexism for a woman’s forum.

So what’s your point in all of this? Looking after your own kids isn’t as valuable as being paid to look after someone else’s? You do realise how crazy this sounds? And you can be more relaxed but obviously a good mum who’s focussing on her kids will be doing more than that.

What you describe though is parenting, it isn’t unique to just SAHM’s.

Plenty of people go the extra mile. You might not have but not everyone is the same. My DC’s nursery is amazing and can never do enough for them. They absolutely should be paid more.

@SouthLondonMum22 - I would argue it's far more stressful looking after your own children than someone else's in a childcare setting because -

a) you care so much more about everything and worry in a way a childminder never would
b) you don't get hand them over at the end of the day

I have been both a sole-charge au-pair (in my younger travelling days) and a SAHM and there is no comparison. When it's someone else's kids, it's just a job and you're counting down the hours really. You don't feel the same mum guilt or anxiety or joy, day to day, hour to hour. You're just thinking about getting home and seeing your boyfriend or whatever. Nobody is going to go the extra mile for minimum wage, sorry but it's true.

This - I’ve been both and when working, I’m not caring for my children - the nursery was. Both can have amazing benefits and both can be really hard but putting down women who make different choices (or who are in position to make different choices to you) isn’t helpful. I’m not sure that it’s jealousy more so people like to feel superior.

You can be more relaxed with your own children if you wish, it isn’t the same when looking after other peoples children is a career that you worked for to gain qualifications and not just part of your responsibility as an adult with children.

The working parents are being particularly nasty and thinking their superiors for having a paid job and pretending they do more then SAHM. You are not looking after your kids when you’re working. Why is everyone so scared to admit it? Jesus, work was a break for me. Both are hard in their own way.

Well no because you love your own kids more… but you do also treat it like a job and do absolutely everything for them like a childminder would!

Also to make it clear I've been both a stay at home parent and a work out of the home parent. So I clearly don't have views about which is superior - both have wonderful aspects and both have terrible aspects.

I don't think it is necessarily jealousy. Comparison is not always jealousy. Sometimes it's about justifying your own decisions and/or actions through negating someone else's lived experience. That's not the same as jealousy. Defining the structured care, education, and nutrition of babies and toddlers as merely "parenting" when it's done inside the home, but work when it's done outside the home places value on "earning" above all else. Op has decided that her "work" was more deserving than her sister in law's because it was financially transactional. That's comparison. And it's not helpful - to her own well-being.

I can imagine how you feel but also having full time work which allowed you to bring up children also implies other support that you either or could afford.

I was a full time mum for a long time as my partner constantly travelled, we had no relatives to help with free child care during the week and my earning capacity was too low for real childcare and my work had also involved antisocial hours. I was freelancing when I had my kids so got no real maternity benefits that you might have received.

Being able to work is not necessarily open to everyone. It is also a kind of privilege.

I don't think the world is divided between noble workers and lazy shirkers. A lot of people maybe don't have your skills or talents. Maybe you work in an industry that was supportive.

I get why you're irritated, I really do, but also I think some people in work tend to look down on the out of work.

I would be interested to know how we're supported to bring up 4 kids full time. Not everyone can work from home. Not everyone is their own boss. Not everyone can afford that level of childcare.

I don't understand why you care though. If someone is a SAHM parent - really who cares? Who cares if they say they are retired? if they receive a state pension then they will be retired surely? My mum didn't work after having children and I would describe her as retired. She receives a state pension and she would receive 50% of my dad's pension if he died. I thought the point of feminism was to give women a choice in how they they chose to live rather than judging those choices. I have a friend who is SAHM who also has a full time housekeeper and a nanny. I think 'good on her' if that is how she wants to live her life. I have other friends with long hours stressful jobs and think the same about them. I don't think their life decisions are about me.

I don't think it is about comparison though, I think it's pretending to have an experience that you don't.

Eg I don't say I was a SAHM just because I had a few maternity leaves. It's not the same and pretending it is, is silly.

It's interesting that the SAHMs commenting are determined that the only reason people could think it's silly is just because we're all so jealous of them, though.

But then a huge number of single parents also only have their children 50 percent of the time - so in that case the mother who's husband works away does have it tougher. She doesn't get the same level of break from parenting as the single parent.

That's the problem with comparison, which is what OP is doing. There will ALWAYS be someone you look at and think that they have it easy and there will ALWAYS be someone looking at you thinking you've had it easy.

Same here, but something tells me saying 'I'm loaded and don't need to work' might piss the OP off a teensy bit more than saying we are retired.

OP what actually pisses you off is not how we choose to describe our comfortable, relaxed existence, but the fact that we have it at all.