To be sick of this, think it is utter bollocks and the next generation are actually bang on?

My immediate thought.

Actually you can work a lot more hours without it becoming a "legal" issue. There is no legal requirement for employers to make the workload fit the hours, and how would you prove that anyway when every person is so different.

And most contracts have a vague clause about working more as is needed, which is what gets people.

Even when there was the EU working time directive, employers could force you to opt out of it by refusing to give bonuses and pay rises until you switched to the new contract that included the opt-out, mine did.

Christ, they don't usually say the quiet part out loud. I'd start looking for another job somewhere else, and then when you hand in your notice you can say to Eric, "Your comments during my performance review about working myself to the bone before we can even discuss a pay rise, as if I have not already been working myself to the bone for the last 15 years, made me realise I needed to leave and work for someone who actually respects me as a human being rather than treating me as a resource to be exploited to the max."

Eric sounds like a twat.
Glad I work in my public sector role, hours are logged for fully Flexi but if you pull more than two 45 hour weeks you are spoken to and reminded of the importance of work life balance and that work will still be there in the morning.

After 20 years of having given it my all in the same role, it was time for the annual evaluation. My manager asked me "and what will you do more this year ?" I answerd that after 20 years of doing more I was to do much less and said I was to go part time. Her mouth fell open and she said "but what will you live on?. I laughed in her face and said I would find food in bins (I don't[. Best decision ever.

I am retired now, but when I was working in a salaried post (I later moved into self-employed arts/music outreach) as a social worker specialising in brain injured people, I used to work my hours, and if I had worked over I would take that time off as TOIL. I did not allow myself to do any unpaid hours outside my contract without compensating myself via TOIL. This was a matter of principle for me - how do the bosses know whether they are adequately staffed if everyone is doing unpaid overtime?

This creeping American attitude of the "the job is your life" is grossly unhealthy. I do not know why people put up with it. It is basically illegal - you have a legally binding contract to work certain hours, and your employer has a legal duty to make your workload fit those hours.

I am afraid this attitude gets inculcated from about 4 years old when little people find themselves with targets and homework that impinges on their home life. Then all through school life it is work, work, work both in school and out to get the relevant bits of paper. There is this constant driving forward and a devaluing of living in the moment, stopping to look around, focussing on family and relationships etc.

The concept of work/life balance is late to the party and long overdue. And good luck to all those younger people who have taken this on board and are placing a value on being a rounded citizen and having time outside of work.

Eric needs a kick up the arse. Do you belong to a union or professional association who might back you in limiting your hours to those in your contract.

This sounds like when I did my training as an accountant in practice. Although since I was a trainee the pay was diabolical and the hours horrendous! But it was all supposed to be 'doing your dues'

I'm 36 now, no I will never be a partner in one of the big 4. Nor do I want to be. I work in industry. The work life balance is beyond better.

Depends on your job doesn’t it? I tend to avoid these “work unpaid overtime you’ve no right to leave at 5” type jobs as I’m sure I’d swiftly be fired 😬

This is so old fashioned and terrible management.

I left teaching after I was told off for eating my lunch in the staffroom rather than being in my classroom working through lunch. This was a school that managed to schedule a late working day (up to 7-7.30pm) once a week. And no overtime pay in teaching of course.

Bollocks to that. I let my class run wild with paint and other crafty stuff and planned my route out that afternoon. I never looked back.

Imagine yourself on your deathbed. Are you going to wish you’d worked longer hours and had no life? Or are you going to be proud of yourself for telling Eric to shove it up his arse?

I told an Eric to shove it up his arse (for this and another thing) and it’s literally the proudest moment of my life.

"Before I give my response to that Eric, can you tell me when the time comes to discuss money next year, that the money will be backdated from the time I took on this additional work?.....oh, it won't be backdated.....well then, that will be a hard no from me. If we have more work than the current staffing levels can cope with, we clearly need to get more staff!"

Eric needs to wake up to the fact it’s 2024 and burn-out is no longer trending.

My organisation introduced agile working after the pandemic. We are encouraged to have a work-life balance that suits us. Long days are completely behind us and it’s perfectly fine to put a hair appointment or golf in your outlook calendar! Success is measured on goals achieved and those goals are realistic. It makes for a very happy workplace.

Ask Eric how many late nights he plans on working.

The correct response in your meeting when Eric says:

"I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much."

is to immediately say,

"You are satisfied with my work. Great. Now Eric, I can't take anymore on, its too much".

Whats he going to say? You are underperforming? He's just said you are great and he's happy with your work.

If he then does anything else, you take it up with HR as bullying.

@Usunshine

Start looking at other jobs, check out salaries for your expertise. Apply for those jobs.

I was reading how really successful people climb the ladder faster and more easily by doing this.

Work to live, don't live to work.

I agree OP, I've always thought people should just push back and almost 'work to rule'. The impact would be huge and would give the government and employers a kick up the backside.

I guess you have the option to not do the extra and say it's too much and look for another job. Employers do need to be careful with employment law.

A lot of corporate lawyers are only working long hours because a project has been poorly managed, likely by someone who prefers work to home. There is no reason why deals need to close on the early hours of the morning unless there is an international time zones element.

I deliberately did not go into that area of law but in my brushes with it, observed it was 90% bravado and bullshit and 10% action. Corporate lawyers always think people admire them and that they are some kind of elite. In reality the work is crashingly dull while really stressful at the same time.

That’s professional service firms for you. It’s the model.

If enough people reject it they’ll have to rethink, but at the moment there are just enough people who fall for it that they keep going.

YANBU, I think the kids totally have it right. Especially in their case because sometimes now even decent-paying jobs (in London and SE at least) barely pay for a roof over your head let alone some kind of lifestyle and fun to which they are totally entitled, I might bloody add. Why should they labour night and day and yes, not every job , certainly office ones, really require that, it only needs doing because workplaces don't hire enough people to do all the work?

yup

Sorry Edited- wrong thread

Oh and the best thing ever said to me when I was busily killing myself from my firm was something DH said;

'You CAN sack your employer, you know'.

For sure - there’s absolutely no point in driving yourself like that if you want to prioritise down time / don’t measure your success by financial metrics. I applaud that / think it’s almost certainly more healthy for your family life and sanity.

But some people are genuinely fired up by the buzz that their income gives them. Some people have historical financial family stuff that makes them need to have a significant buffer - and some people just really like the lifestyle that comes with it.

I think both are personal choices - I do think that it’s unreasonable for someone who’s really happy to leave their job at 5 on the dot every day and then complain it’s unfair that corporate lawyers pulling 80 hour weeks get paid so much more…

Yes, this is some kind of corporate bullshit. You are meant to work your self into the ground, for your job, to prove yourself, to prove your worth. Such utter nonsense.