To be sick of this, think it is utter bollocks and the next generation are actually bang on?

He wants you to carry other people who don't pull their weight . If he wants more work out of you then he can pay you more or he can fuck off .

Amen to this. He expects you to work all hours on the promise of more money - it might be £500 for all you know. I think he's having a laugh and no I wouldn't do it and would tell him as much but at least find out whether a pay increase is both a realistic option and worth your while.

Evil genius 😂

I find all of this a really weird culture.

We have wider family members who were incredibly hard working at school, then uni, then law school, then got contracts with the prestigious London law firms etc - feted and celebrated and talked about in awed tones throughout.

And yet, they were the least likely to be present for things, family events, supporting others, unable to commit to plans, always having to arrive late/leave early. Damaged a lot of family relationships by being so clearly prioritising work over home, even for weddings etc.

Despite clearly putting a lot in store in being seen as "successful" and earning salaries the rest of us couldn't ever achieve, they were also the last to be able to get on the property ladder, because they had to rent close to work, and buying was limited to areas that are expensive due to commuting needs (always at ridiculous times because of the hours we're discussing).

I regret absolutely nothing about working steadily throughout, never flying high or earning big bucks, but also having a life, my own free time, finding it easy to change my hours around having kids/caring responsibilities. Not being tied to expensive locations means we could get on the housing ladder earlier and live somewhere we wanted to. We've probably evened out some of the finances in that alone.

I have no interest or desire in working in a toxic culture where someone gets to make you feel rubbish for leaving on time, having hobbies and downtime. I certainly won't be encouraging my DC down those sort of paths.

I was made redundant earlier this year. I was routinely working 8-6.30 or more

My new job is more of a commute, but I actually have more time and I enjoy it.

Don’t put up with the blackmail

I worked for an 'Eric'. I made a sideways move in to his team with the promise of interesting work and great promotion prospects. The job involved managing more junior staff members and at my first review meeting Eric told me that I was 'mothering' them all too much. Apparently I should have intentionally set very tight deadlines for everything to keep them 'focussed'. He'd observed that I never asked them to work in to the early hours to turn a job around overnight, never booked internal meetings before 8.30am (official start time was 9am), 'allowed' them to leave on time even if there was a task that was not quite finished. His advice was that I even if not really necessary to meet external deadlines I should always work the team as if we were running late. Not long after he gave me a telling off for agreeing to temporary flexible start/finish times for a colleague who's wife was pregnant and ill on hospital, so that he could visit her a few times a day. Apparently his wife would need to learn to cope without him there all the time when she had a baby to look after, so really it was better for them if he couldn't be there now so she could get used to it.

Eric can fuck off. He's clearly not going to give you a payrise - it's just the carrot he's dangling to get you to burn out.

I agree. You do the hours you're paid for. Life isn't just for work. If you work hard when you're there, you owe an employer who would not hesitate to get rid of they needed nothing.

I'm a mental health nurse in the NHS. My job is 9-5, but I used to miss my break and often work doing paperwork until 7pm. Now I turn my laptop off at 5. I'll occasionally stay on if it's something urgent, if it's anything to do with safety, or if a patient really does need me. Anything else, hell no. And when I do this, I make sure I record it as time owing. And I make sure I take my 30 mins unpaid break. I say if I'm getting overwhelmed and ask for support.

I'm good at my job. I work hard. I prioritise patient care. I've progressed quickly. And I don't feel run down, or too stressed, because I make sure I have time to relax at night, which makes me a better nurse for my patients anyway!

Work life balance is important. Work can give occupation and sense of purpose, be social, give rewards etc but there has to be a balance. Some people can realise this too late and waste many years / sacrifices / life on a job only to realise that you are just an employee. Thread below with posters experiences.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/work/4982564-when-did-you-realise-you-are-just-an-employee-and-loyalty-accounts-for-nothing

I think a lot of people get caught up in this bubble, and you are right, it isn’t worth if. But they realise too late when they have compromised even their health to try to get ahead. Never go that far.

I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me - perhaps law was poor example. What about an NHS consultant orthopaedic surgeon. Works long hours fulfilling NHS and training role - and then does some private work on the side to supplement income. Makes 200k.

but there are plenty of jobs in which people choose to work insanely hard - and get paid commensurate with their labour. Deservedly. There are plenty of assholes who do this. Sometimes inefficiently. Doesn’t mean that there isn’t a correlation between that work and that income.

there are always going to be people who pick work over home. There are always going to be people for whom the drive for more income is greater than the drive for more free time. I don’t think either is wrong - but there is an opportunity cost at both ends of the spectrum and I don’t think it’s reasonable to assign moral judgement to either.

Sounds like you have a terrible manager tbh. I'm 43 and yeah I will work late occasionally if needed but definitely not every night, life is way too short!

There is the narrow view which says you should look after yourself only.
Then there's the wider, more socially responsible view, that says we need to increase productivity so that society can pay its way and create the NHS and services more generally that we all aspire to. That money comes from government and there's a relationship between GDP and the amount of money government can spend.
What I see is people putting their work/life balance ahead of productivity - that's the situation you describe too.
It's reasonable up to a point but after that point it becomes an empty soundbite to attract votes. Work/life balance should be improved where it is consistent with the society we want to create (good services, etc.). As long as people are trained to think only in the narrow view of what's good for them, no government, no matter what political orientation, will be able to afford the society we want.
The balance comes when people develop resilience consistent with their focus on work/life balance. When the priority is work/life balance alone, that's not great.

TBF I am mid 30s and never ever understood the mentality of working yourself to death.

My mam was a hard working work your way up career woman before getting ill. She dedicated her life to it (went straight back after having me, I barely knew her as a baby/toddler) until she couldn't and she had climbed the ladder at exceptional speed to be the highest in her field in the company by her age.

When she couldn't work anymore she got a severance payout then her boss and coworkers etc... ditched her like a hot stone. None where at her funeral and throughout all the years and health scares I never saw one visit or call.

It gave me a very set view for a young age about how I won't ever kill myself to be just another worker bee and that my worth is in no way tied to a job/career/money/title.

I'd send him an email today and ask him if he'd send me a summary of what he'd discussed with me in the review and what was agreed for my records. I'm presuming he'll leave out his intention to torture you and force you to leave by overworking you. Stick to his written points and say no to extra work. I'd write my own account of the meeting just in case you end up in an Employment Tribunal. I'd also start looking for another job, though I know things are tough atm in finance and legal and that there have been lay-offs.

Eric sounds like he has an employee/employer kink. Ugh

In the week I started work (20yrs ago) a girl who'd been there for a few years said she never left earlier than 1930 for the first year. I thought that sounded awful.

I only worked late a handful of times when there was a true need. There usually wasn't. But I'm not very driven in my career and went part time as soon as I could.

I very much stick to my hours and always have. I work damned hard when I'm at work but I'm paid 830-5 and that's what I work!

If I work longer I'm working for free and making management believe that the workload is reasonable for the hours.

If I'm asked to work overtime - I put in a timesheet.

It's not because I'm lazy. It's because I'm paid to do a job within 40 hours and therefore I will work those 40 hours.

Eric is taking the piss.

I'd be looking for another job if my manager said that to me.
TBF I'm not in a high-stakes professional career, but we do get very busy at certain times and my manager always said if you need to do extra hours, just invoice for them (I'm part time), was always checking on me that I wasn't too overwhelmed, etc.
Maybe it's different in the white collar world (I have worked in charity/education for years), but it's not right.

Eric is jerk and no job is worth sacrificing your life for. Everyone should work their contracted and paid hours and if overtime is regularly needed then more staff are also needed and/or overtime pay for those extra hours. I think the younger generation have a lot to teach older workers. They value their health and their time and they expect others to do the same. Dinosaurs like Eric will probably die of a heart attack at their desk - and for what?

I'd nod enthusiastically and then do the opposite.

When you inevitably fall behind on work, tell Eric just as he suggested. There won't be much he can say to that.

I'm no good at this sort of conversation with bosses because at the time I'm so astounded that I can't think of a coherent answer. I cannot think of one positive outcome from giving an employee more work than they can reasonably do.
I'd want to go back and ask what the purpose of such an action would be. Eric sounds idiotic and with zero duty of care for his employees.

Oh yes. Work twice as hard to make you richer Eric, for the vague carrot of a conversation about more money? You want more work now, you pay more now. Your young colleagues are spot on. Unlike us millennials and gen X they have entered an employees market where opportunities often exceed suitable candidates. They know they don't have to be exploited and contribute to a culture where others are exploited. People like Eric haven't caught on yet and still think they hold all the cards. We should applaud and support our young colleagues by following their example, because if no one is prepared to do it employers will have no choice but to wise up and pay people fairly to work reasonable hours.

Oh and another thing (if no one else has said it) - if everyone refuses then this expectation will go away!