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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of this, think it is utter bollocks and the next generation are actually bang on?

212 replies

Usunshine · 10/11/2024 23:09

I’m in a professional role. Historically this career (like many others) is stay late, keep working, do absolutely everything you can for your job. I had a conversation with my manager in a 1:1 review meeting where he said I was doing fine, couple of bits to work on but all good and happy with performance etc. A normal review meeting really.

He then proceeded to say next I want to really mount the pressure, I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much.’ I want you to almost feel like there’s so much on that you are non stop. That will mean next year we can talk about more money. It will mean late nights of course. We want to keep building more and more.

I have worked hard in my life. I’m late 30s and I’ve actually done the whole putting your life on hold to pass professional exams, worked late and weekends. I’ve done all that. I watch younger versions of me clocking off at bang on 5:30 and be called snowflakes by older members of the team. But I think good for them. For fucks sake why am I being told I have to have so much pressure I can’t manage the workload?! Why is that necessary? In my opinion the younger generation has it right. It’s not lazy logging off at half 5 to play tennis or go for a drink. It’s sensible. There’s no prizes for working yourself to the bone. Interested in others thoughts on this as I had a completely different view a few years ago.

OP posts:
Kate8889 · 11/11/2024 11:37

My mom's work gave a posthumous award to a colleague of my mom's for "being a dedicated worker". They'd pushed him so hard that he died of a heart attack. Do you really think that's worth it?

Oblomov24 · 11/11/2024 11:36

@PlopSofa
I like him, he's really good isn't he? Quite a few of his I like.

Alphaalga · 11/11/2024 11:36

Individuals like Ear-ache are obliviously confined by the misery of their own ambition and have always been the bane of my life.

I'll be clocking off at half-five with the young 'uns.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 11/11/2024 11:35

So Eric is saying that when he asks you to do something he wants you to say no and then he'll give you a payrise? You can do that!

Back in the 1990s in her first job my DSis' boss got upset that DSis worked very hard during the day to finish all her work and leave on time. So DSis slowed down and did the same amount of work but stayed later. Her boss was very happy and DSis got paid overtime.

rookiemere · 11/11/2024 11:35

Thinking about this in my 50s. I was happy to work long hours in my 20s as a) I had more energy and b) at that time there was still a pretty direct correlation between working hard and progressing up the career ladder in the same company.

These days the link is pretty much broken and the only way to get a decent pay rise is move company. At my age I can't cope with long hours so I have to be good at what I do in my paid hours, which is how it should be for everyone.

UK productivity would be just fine without unpaid overtime if most people worked productively in their paid hours ( instead of Mumsnetting - oops )

Oblomov24 · 11/11/2024 11:32

What a knob Eric sounds. Err no thanks.

booisbooming · 11/11/2024 11:32

My stepdad was rather high up in a public sector role and he said in the 70s and early 80s it was totally normal for people to sit around drinking tea away from their desks, read the newspaper properly, nip to the pub at lunchtime and everyone finished at 5 unless there was a problem, and staying later only ever meant an hour or so. I reckon "Eric" is a sandwich generation of gen X/elder millennials, and the Boomers were actually more like Gen Z.

JoJothegerbil · 11/11/2024 11:31

Eric sounds like a twat. Not one person says on their death bed, 'I wish I'd worked more'.

Moveonward · 11/11/2024 11:26

I am in my early 40’s and have a senior role within the NHS, work full time with a long commute with a family. This past 2 years I have been also studying for an advanced qualification to enhance the service.

I have absolutely worked myself to the bone this year trying to juggle everything.. so much so I put off a health issue for 5 months as I simply didn’t have the headspace or time to deal with it which has now bit me in the bum and is far worse than it would have been had I got this investigated early this year. I am now off sick and it’s likely to be a sickness period of several months.

honestly I could kick myself for thinking that the job is more important than my own well-being. I have more treatment to go but still feel I should be back working. I know in my heart of hearts I’m a cog in a vast machine and the only person really who is going to advocate for myself is me

CountryCob · 11/11/2024 11:17

Hello, I have worked in this type of environment and left the industry, I now work within my professional sphere but not in that sort of role. Also have a lot od hard won and impressive qualifications and have always been good at my job and concientious. It was very wearing being judged for working hard for a full day, the environment was also mildly sexually harassing which is always fun. I didn't want to make partner and I don't miss it at all. I worked really hard only to be sniffed at for leaving before 7. When I was a trainee I worked so hard you needed to lie down in the loo, I saw someone work 36hrs straight for no real reason only to be on hand. Think it is going to be hard to fill the junior spots in the future. Massive bullying egos everywhere. Maybe its time for a change?

ItsLovelyWeatherForDucks · 11/11/2024 10:56

Yes. Slightly 'older' people - 45 plus - do call the younger generation snowflakes for not wanting to work an enormous amount of hours, and wanting to drop to say, 4 days a week, and for having mental health issues - and finding work too much of a strain sometimes.

I was working in the late 1980s, 1990s, and very early noughties in a job where I was told to work work work train train train, get up the ladder as high as you can.

And I was royally mocked by my manager for having the temerity to walk out of the door at 5pm - my finishing time, and called spineless, weak, part-timer, and all sorts of names, followed by a bellowing laugh to try to make out it was a 'joke.' I went part time when I had a couple of children (3 days one week/4 the next,) but still had the same amount of work given to me as when I did 5 days a week. And they said 'as soon they go to school you can work full time again.'

I would even have some days where I turned up 20 minutes early because that's what time the bus got me there (next bus would have made me late,) and I would think 'cool, I can get a coffee and sit down and send a few messages to people,' (and then start work at 8.30am.) Within 2 minutes of getting in, the Manager would barge into the office I worked in and say 'your 8.30am interview is waiting!' I'd say 'but it's only 8.13am.' He'd raise his voice at me and say 'just get off your arse and do your job - they're here now. Get in there and interview them!' So I started to turn up at no earlier than 8.25am to stop this happening. (Just took a slow walk from the bus station and had a little walk through the little park nearby.)

It got me down so much and put me on the edge of a nervous breakdown - and I actually ended up giving the job up. I started working part time as a waitress in a Chinese Restaurant for 16 hours a week for minimum pay. I was happier in that waitressing job than I'd been in the 13-ish years in the previous workplace. I stayed there (in the Chinese Restaurant) for 2 years before retraining and getting an admin job with the council. 2 days one week, 3 the next. And I was given a reasonable and moderate amount of work!

I've got two DC both late 20s, and the older one worked for the local authority for quite a while, and then she decided she wanted to go into the private sector doing a 'dream job' - and she started working for and up and coming new company. They did nothing but work her to the bone, and some days they said 'no-one gets to leave until this certain project is done.' Some days she was working 8am til 9pm. It was fucking disgusting. 70 hours a week some weeks. She was an absolute wreck - and again she was laughed at and mocked for having audacity to want to work 'only' 9-10 hours some days.

So she ended up going back into the public sector. She now does 4 days a week. She still gets about £40K - so she's fine. and her partner gets £60K so they're doing all right. My other DD and partner both work for the Government, and are happy in their work. They've got a lovely work life balance - and do 9 day fortnights. They all have a good amount of holiday leave too. And they get paid in full if they're off sick.

@Usunshine You definitely need to find another job. This sounds like a horrific place to work. I was hoping this type of workplace was burning itself out now, and thought this ballbreaking attitude had been consigned to the past, but my older DD's experience proved it hasn't! And so does yours!!!

I grew up in an age where women were supposed to have it all ... Have children, and the home, and be a good wifey and mommy, and have a successful career - training and training to get the top of the career ladder. (My workplace used to virtually force people to do an HNC, and even in a few cases, a degree, but it was in a subject related to the job, not a subject that interests them.)

Unfortunately, while women were working their finger to the bone at work, nobody else was doing anything in the house - so the woman had to go home and do everything; cook, clean, housework, any evening activity with the children etc... And children were just pushed out to childminders.

I don't think you can have a career that involves working 60+ hours a week or more, and be a really good parent. I'm sorry, I just don't think you can. You can't do both. They're both demanding jobs. I don't mean you can't be a working mom, but you can't be working 60-70 hours a week and be a good parent - you just can't. I chose to be a good parent. Fuck work.

It was when my children got to 4 and 5, that I gave up my horrible demanding job, and just worked 16 hours a week at the Chinese Restaurant, and then as I said, went to work for council 2-3 days a week after 2 years - in a much less demanding role than I was in my old (horrible!) job...! My 2 DD loved me being at home much more, and I never went full time again... They're now both nearly 30...

Borgonzola · 11/11/2024 10:56

I have a flexible job where I can log off on time. I always did but it works better now I have kids and they're very understand about it. I enjoy and it's fulfilling but it pays below the median average and I've been in it for 10 years. This is the payoff, for me.

Partner works silly hours (in my view) though not weekends. He pulls in the big bucks. This is what I assume many couples with kids do.

I don't love it but I do like having my own time and I pay my way.

Calmhappyandhealthy · 11/11/2024 10:52

He then proceeded to say next I want to really mount the pressure, I want you to be feeling you have too much work and have to say to me ‘(Eric), I can’t take this on, it’s too much.’ I want you to almost feel like there’s so much on that you are non stop. That will mean next year we can talk about more money. It will mean late nights of course. We want to keep building more and more

Has Eric been on a Management course lately? Confused

Gettingbysomehow · 11/11/2024 10:50

My DS and DIL are not having it they want to enjoy their lives and I agree. DS said all I did was work, work, work. I was a single mum I had to.
They have moved out of Surrey and bought a small house in rural mid wales. They both work online and are working 3 days a week each. I applaud them. They have plenty of time to just live and enjoy the countryside.

puddingpour · 11/11/2024 10:41

PennyCrayon1 · 10/11/2024 23:17

Lawyer?

My first thought too.

I'd let Eric deal with his pressure and find a new job preferably run by Gen Zers

Startingagainandagain · 11/11/2024 10:41

Likely that 'Eric' is after a promotion/better pay himself and this is why he is pushing everyone so he can make himself look good.

Toxic managers/companies are not with losing your health over.

Do you hours and leave him to his delusions.

SorryNotSorryForWhatISaid · 11/11/2024 10:28

Ginmonkeyagain · 11/11/2024 10:15

@SorryNotSorryForWhatISaid I used to work for a public body that attracted people who had worked in those kind of corporate circles but wanted to leave for a better work/life balance.

They were often burnt out and broken by the time they got to us. We had to work at rebuilding their confidence and perception of what was normal. It was so odd and not what I would want for myself or anyone I cared about.

Absolutely

And it's so odd that these are the people who in their late teens/early twenties are held up as "winning at life" - what a prize to win.

I'm by no means lazy, or a low achiever by most people's standards but I honestly feel grateful that I was never in that A stream and that the benefits of my mediocre career path feel far more advantageous given that I've had quite a nice time and never been put under that much pressure. I've had a work/life balance,.some flexibility, self esteem etc the whole way through.

SpringleDingle · 11/11/2024 10:27

Your boss sounds like a twat and I am lots of people boss and 47. I don't work stupid hours and I don't expect them to either. I want my team to work hard, to focus, to get shit done... between the hours of 9 and 5:30!!

Parkerpenny · 11/11/2024 10:25

Ask Eric to put it in writing!

BakedAl · 11/11/2024 10:21

Your company should have a risk assessment for workplace stress. Send it to your boss with a record of your conversation and cc HR. I would be horrified if one of our managers had this conversation with an employee.

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 11/11/2024 10:19

And this is why I will never do over my own hours unless I'm confident I can take them back another time, or that I KNOW it'll benefit me (for example, I worked until 1730 on Friday just to finish something off I knew would be a ballache this morning).

Feels like a very American way of working. A good work/life balance is important to me. More important than getting loads more money, especially when that carrot is dangled ALL the time yet rarely comes to fruition.

Dontlletmedownbruce · 11/11/2024 10:18

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if you do this to the degree expected by Eric, you will have the same chat next year and the money won't be there due to 'cutbacks' or whatever lame excuse. Or you will get the rise but so will those clocking out on time. Either way he will make a fool out of you.

Supersimkin7 · 11/11/2024 10:17

Spot on OP.

Anyone can make money treating others like shit.

Ginmonkeyagain · 11/11/2024 10:15

@SorryNotSorryForWhatISaid I used to work for a public body that attracted people who had worked in those kind of corporate circles but wanted to leave for a better work/life balance.

They were often burnt out and broken by the time they got to us. We had to work at rebuilding their confidence and perception of what was normal. It was so odd and not what I would want for myself or anyone I cared about.

Lavender14 · 11/11/2024 10:13

Tbh I think it's up to you in terms of your priorities for career progression vs investing in other areas of your life. But I would be asking him clearly for a time frame and what the compensation and accompanying title change would be as you know you're capable and motivated but you also know your worth.

There's always a gamble with things like this that you could easily knock your pan in for months on end and they could keep dragging it out/ go in a different direction/ decide you're coping as you are and let other staff go and leave you with their workload. So I would be wanting very clear expectations set out at the onset so that you can go back and argue it if it seems like things aren't materialising.

But yes in agreement with others he sounds like an arse who has no value for the overall welfare of his staff.