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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think solo train travel is not a big deal for most adults?

418 replies

traintaker · 09/11/2024 23:12

My friend and I both attended a wedding that was some distance away in a location we haven’t been to before. Neither of us wanted to do a long drive so we booked train tickets. It was a five hour journey including two train changes. (We are both single, for context, hence planning this together).

We each booked our own tickets, but discussed which trains we’d get. The day before we went, I realised that I had some work that I needed to finish, so I text my friend saying that I would be catching a later train (I booked an anytime ticket) so I would see her at the hotel (we were travelling down the day before so no particular deadline).

She was really upset with me, because she didn’t want to do the journey alone. Not just because it wouldn’t be as much fun, but because she was scared to do it alone. She had bought tickets for a specific train so didn’t have the same flexibility as me, but nevertheless she actually bought new tickets, at great expense, so that she could travel with me at the new time, and now I feel awful and as though I was totally unreasonable for not checking with her first before changing my travel plans.

I have known this friend for 25 years and she has never said anything to me about being a nervous traveller, we have actually flown abroad together twice (as part of a bigger group) and have caught the train many times. She is not a particularly nervous person (or so I thought) and I am now questioning myself because the thought never even crossed my mind that going on a long train journey alone would be a big deal for an average adult with no disabilities or mental health problems. I am a very independent person by nature though, and I enjoy going to places by myself.

So this is just a reality check for me really. Was I unreasonable in assuming that she would be okay making this journey on her own?

OP posts:
FeelinTwentySixPointTwo · 10/11/2024 11:12

the head of finance will be caught shagging the head of HR who is married to a celebrity footballer so the whole thing is hitting the papers tomorrow

Oh my goodness, you work in my office don't you 😄

LindorDoubleChoc · 10/11/2024 11:12

TwinklyAmberOrca · 10/11/2024 09:18

If you've known someone for 25 years and they're a friend and you've planned the 5 hour train journey, then changing plans and not including the friend is unkind.

Criticism? The OP asked for opinions and asked about their actions. Are we only allowed to post if we agree?

Personally I always consider how my actions affect other.

Of course not, disagree all you like! Ironic that you unkindly accuse the OP of being unkind though!

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 11:08

FeelinTwentySixPointTwo · 10/11/2024 10:53

Surely most people know how their jobs work / the likelihood of work impinging on social events in advance?

If you are sufficiently senior, no. I could be cakes to fix someone else's problem, or have to write an "urgent" report any day, any time. This was not the case when I worked on the till in Tesco, obviously. So all jobs are different but, very generally, once you are above a certain level everyone's problem is your problem.

But you do know from what you have said - you know you might have to break a social engagement in a crisis.

I’m not saying a person will know specifically that 3 months after booking train tickets for that 3 month hence date, the head of finance will be caught shagging the head of HR who is married to a celebrity footballer so the whole thing is hitting the papers tomorrow (for the most far fetched scenario I can think of) but a person must know that they have the sort of job where in a crisis they may still be in the office sorting out the issue late into the night.

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 11:00

FeelinTwentySixPointTwo · 10/11/2024 10:46

If you have the sort of job that means you might need to break an arrangement at the last minute due to work

In any senior role this goes without saying though, and in the OPs position I would expect my friend to understand that. It's not flaking, it's having responsibilities.

When I was in more junior and middle management roles I was generally able to leave on time unless a real crisis occurred. But in more senior positions you often have to work unexpectedly at short notice. That's part of the gig. All my friends know what I do for a living, most understand it, and all would definitely understand if I had to get a train a few hours later than planned. If their reaction was to be hurt or "off" with me I'd think this was really childish, and it would also illustrate a real misunderstanding of how some jobs work.
As for not wanting to get a train on her own - if this isn't about undisclosed additional needs then perhaps it's about having a very "small" world and limited experience of travel. It's all about perspective - to me, travelling to London or Edinburgh or Cardiff is easy because I do it for work all the time and I wouldn't give it a second thought. But to others unused to operating further than the local town they would probably see it as two or three different trains, several hours, connections, and a massive headache. And that's no criticism; when I was much younger and not as used to trains I wouldn't have been so confident either, but I would expect most people to gather confidence and experience with age (unless prevented by significant barriers?)

So no, you weren't unreasonable, OP. She was, if anything, as she assumed the train journey was a Big Thing (perhaps more like a shared international flight?) rather than a basic means of getting from A to B. If she is still sulking about it, that's just proof that she's very emotionally immature, which does also explain the fear of trains..!

In any senior role this goes without saying though, and in the OPs position I would expect my friend to understand that. It's not flaking, it's having responsibilities.

I wonder if this is less likely in an older friendship where people may not understand how other jobs work? I’m older and I have friends who do everything from working in a supermarket to a hospital consultant. I don’t have a clue how each person’s job works. I don’t have to. If the plans are tentative, my friends are adults. They use their words and say so.

When I was younger and a lot of my friends were ‘work friends’ it was much easier - we all had similar jobs with similar rules.

In this case, the friend might well have understood if the OP had said the plans were tentative - she could have arranged to go with someone else / bought a flexi ticket / arranged to drive.

The issue is surely that the OP didn’t say that, broke the arrangement at the last minute and is now attributing the most uncharitable emotion possible to her friend, describing her as ‘miffed’ (why not ‘hurt’ or ‘upset’?).

FeelinTwentySixPointTwo · 10/11/2024 10:55

She realised a day in advance that she had more work on than she thought, sounds kinda like she could have got through it the night before or by making an easy start or by planning her work week better to begin with

Fair point. And it does depend on the sector too. Mine is one where senior positions can't easily just delegate, but absolutely appreciate in other sectors, you may not have to deal with things personally, and have junior managers to pass to.

FeelinTwentySixPointTwo · 10/11/2024 10:53

Surely most people know how their jobs work / the likelihood of work impinging on social events in advance?

If you are sufficiently senior, no. I could be cakes to fix someone else's problem, or have to write an "urgent" report any day, any time. This was not the case when I worked on the till in Tesco, obviously. So all jobs are different but, very generally, once you are above a certain level everyone's problem is your problem.

kiraric · 10/11/2024 10:52

@FeelinTwentySixPointTwo

Hmm sort of - so I have a senior role as do most of my friends. Sometimes there is a genuine crisis at work but for the most part, I think it's easier not harder at senior levels to plan in advance, delegate etc. All of us manage to make plans in advance and stick to them

And TBH the OP doesn't make it sound like this was a crisis. She realised a day in advance that she had more work on than she thought, sounds kinda like she could have got through it the night before or by making an easy start or by planning her work week better to begin with.

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 10:49

pointswinprizes · 10/11/2024 10:22

I think most people, if told an arrangement had to be cancelled due to work, would be disappointed but accept it like a grown up.

Sure, but I’d also mentally make a note that the person in question is unreliable. It’s interesting that so many people think ‘but work’ is an excuse for flaking on prior arrangements. Surely most people know how their jobs work / the likelihood of work impinging on social events in advance?

In the situation described by the OP:

  1. I’d expect our plans to be made on the basis of ‘unless something comes up’ - the OP didn’t do this.
  2. I’d expect the OP to recognise she was changing set plans and apologise - no indication the OP did this.
  3. If the OP didn’t bother to do either (1) or (2), I’d assume this said something about how close we are (or rather aren’t) and back off from the relationship.

I certainly wouldn’t change my ticket - the last thing I’d want to do is spend 5 hours on a train with someone who would treat me like this - but I travel a lot. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

FeelinTwentySixPointTwo · 10/11/2024 10:46

If you have the sort of job that means you might need to break an arrangement at the last minute due to work

In any senior role this goes without saying though, and in the OPs position I would expect my friend to understand that. It's not flaking, it's having responsibilities.

When I was in more junior and middle management roles I was generally able to leave on time unless a real crisis occurred. But in more senior positions you often have to work unexpectedly at short notice. That's part of the gig. All my friends know what I do for a living, most understand it, and all would definitely understand if I had to get a train a few hours later than planned. If their reaction was to be hurt or "off" with me I'd think this was really childish, and it would also illustrate a real misunderstanding of how some jobs work.
As for not wanting to get a train on her own - if this isn't about undisclosed additional needs then perhaps it's about having a very "small" world and limited experience of travel. It's all about perspective - to me, travelling to London or Edinburgh or Cardiff is easy because I do it for work all the time and I wouldn't give it a second thought. But to others unused to operating further than the local town they would probably see it as two or three different trains, several hours, connections, and a massive headache. And that's no criticism; when I was much younger and not as used to trains I wouldn't have been so confident either, but I would expect most people to gather confidence and experience with age (unless prevented by significant barriers?)

So no, you weren't unreasonable, OP. She was, if anything, as she assumed the train journey was a Big Thing (perhaps more like a shared international flight?) rather than a basic means of getting from A to B. If she is still sulking about it, that's just proof that she's very emotionally immature, which does also explain the fear of trains..!

pointswinprizes · 10/11/2024 10:22

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 10:09

And in my view it absolutely is. If you have the sort of job that means you might need to break an arrangement at the last minute due to work, you need to tell people that and let them decide whether to risk it, not wait until the last minute to announce arrangements they think are solid aren’t going ahead then blame them for being upset.

I think most people, if told an arrangement had to be cancelled due to work, would be disappointed but accept it like a grown up.

Trobealone · 10/11/2024 10:15

Then I do think it’s on the anxious traveller to communicate that she needs a travel companion - or I think train companies will provide travel assistance.
Through work - is she ever expected to travel alone? Would she be unable to do this?

godmum56 · 10/11/2024 10:10

traintaker · 09/11/2024 23:12

My friend and I both attended a wedding that was some distance away in a location we haven’t been to before. Neither of us wanted to do a long drive so we booked train tickets. It was a five hour journey including two train changes. (We are both single, for context, hence planning this together).

We each booked our own tickets, but discussed which trains we’d get. The day before we went, I realised that I had some work that I needed to finish, so I text my friend saying that I would be catching a later train (I booked an anytime ticket) so I would see her at the hotel (we were travelling down the day before so no particular deadline).

She was really upset with me, because she didn’t want to do the journey alone. Not just because it wouldn’t be as much fun, but because she was scared to do it alone. She had bought tickets for a specific train so didn’t have the same flexibility as me, but nevertheless she actually bought new tickets, at great expense, so that she could travel with me at the new time, and now I feel awful and as though I was totally unreasonable for not checking with her first before changing my travel plans.

I have known this friend for 25 years and she has never said anything to me about being a nervous traveller, we have actually flown abroad together twice (as part of a bigger group) and have caught the train many times. She is not a particularly nervous person (or so I thought) and I am now questioning myself because the thought never even crossed my mind that going on a long train journey alone would be a big deal for an average adult with no disabilities or mental health problems. I am a very independent person by nature though, and I enjoy going to places by myself.

So this is just a reality check for me really. Was I unreasonable in assuming that she would be okay making this journey on her own?

If she is nervous about making a train journey alone that's her problem. You are not her support worker or her mother. This goes double if its not something she has mentioned although I get that she may not want to tell people. I have a similar issue with driving on motorways but if I have to change my plans because of this that is mine to manage and not the responsibility of my friends. I don't think you were unreasonable not to consider something that you didn't know. I would always buy a flexible ticket too because you only have to be held up by eg a traffic accident to lose the ticket. I can get your friend changing her ticket but that's on her too. Being miffed at you (and continuing to be miffed) because of something that you did not know about that is not your problem is plain silly.

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 10:09

pointswinprizes · 10/11/2024 09:59

Re-arranging because of work commitments isn't flaking.

And in my view it absolutely is. If you have the sort of job that means you might need to break an arrangement at the last minute due to work, you need to tell people that and let them decide whether to risk it, not wait until the last minute to announce arrangements they think are solid aren’t going ahead then blame them for being upset.

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 10:03

betterangels · 10/11/2024 09:30

OP said it was work that needed to be done. She can't wait to ask her friend's permission for that. A work deadline triumphs traveling with a friend to a wedding.

‘Needed to be done’ can mean anything. I have work on my desk that ‘needs to be done’. I’m not going to work this weekend / cancel my day off next week / stay until midnight to do it.

It could well mean ‘work it would be nice not to have hanging over my head when I leave’ not ‘OMG must be done or the business will collapse’.

Also, most jobs don’t suddenly go from ones where arrangements to leave at a given time can be set in stone to emergency! crisis! stay late at short notice! If the OP knew the arrangement was for them to travel together if she could manage it and if nothing more important came up she should have said so.

Alondra · 10/11/2024 10:00

Mischance · 10/11/2024 09:38

I do it all the time and I have disability problems.
Just for ref for anyone else with disability, I use Passenger Assist ... Great service .... carries your luggage.

One of my best friends is 78 y.o, with mobility problems. She doesn't drive and goes everywhere by train. Once a year she travels long haul from Australia to Spain and has never had a problem. As you say, Passenger Assist is fabulous both in trains and planes.

She's always been an independent woman, never needing another adult to be her chaperone/expecting a friend to provide assistance and entertainment in a 5 hour train journey because of work or simply because something came up.

pointswinprizes · 10/11/2024 09:59

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 09:56

Or she’s hurt to realise someone she thought of as a close friend apparently didn’t see her the same way and was prepared to flake on her at the last minute?

The OP clearly doesn’t understand how her friend feels about things or she wouldn’t have been surprised by the friend’s reaction to the last minute change of arrangements so I suspect she’s an unreliable narrator as to the reasons for her friend being ‘off’ with her too.

For the avoidance of all doubt: Yes, the first paragraph is speculation and I have no idea how the friend actually feels. The problem is, from the OP’s posts, I don’t think she does either,

Re-arranging because of work commitments isn't flaking.

godmum56 · 10/11/2024 09:57

maxelly · 09/11/2024 23:21

Hmm, haven't voted cos I think it's a bit of both. I do think you're a touch UR to change plans on your friend without at least profusely apologizing, since you had arranged to travel together. I agree though that the train journey alone really shouldn't be an issue for a capable adult. I guess though that it might be less the journey itself and more the arrival at the other end she's nervous about, if you were due to get in in the evening that may have meant trying to locate a taxi (lots of stations don't have a taxi rank any more and Uber doesn't work everywhere) or walk across a strange town/city in the dark alone, finding and checking into accomodation, which is the sort of thing which might reasonably make someone nervous (nb not saying I wouldn't do those things alone, I have done many times but if I was picking something to get worked up about it would be that I'd get lost on the way from the train station to hotel or be stranded at a rural station not able to get a taxi or something. Not that these things couldn't ever happen if I had someone with me but they'd feel a lot better if I wasn't alone I think). So I guess if she's generally a reasonable person and good friend you should cut her some slack on this one?

profusely apologising?

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 09:56

TerryKirby · 10/11/2024 09:31

I bet the 5 hours journey with her was "fun" then if she was miffed the whole time.

And she carried on her "miffness" throughout the whole wedding and 2 days away, AND the journey home? And even now??!

Sounds a tad...precious...

Or she’s hurt to realise someone she thought of as a close friend apparently didn’t see her the same way and was prepared to flake on her at the last minute?

The OP clearly doesn’t understand how her friend feels about things or she wouldn’t have been surprised by the friend’s reaction to the last minute change of arrangements so I suspect she’s an unreliable narrator as to the reasons for her friend being ‘off’ with her too.

For the avoidance of all doubt: Yes, the first paragraph is speculation and I have no idea how the friend actually feels. The problem is, from the OP’s posts, I don’t think she does either,

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 10/11/2024 09:44

Yanbu. She sounds unhinged.

pointswinprizes · 10/11/2024 09:44

She’s being a bit silly. What’s scary about a train? 😵‍💫

AhBiscuits · 10/11/2024 09:40

I like travelling by train and have done many long journeys alone. However I am still a bit of a nervous traveller and spend a fair bit of time before travelling going over the journey, making sure I know how much time I have to change, where each train is headed, what stops there are, bus and taxi options to and from the station etc. A last minute change would probably throw me a bit.
So whilst I think most adults would be fine travelling alone, I can easily see that some wouldn't be and that it would cause anxiety.

Mischance · 10/11/2024 09:38

I do it all the time and I have disability problems.
Just for ref for anyone else with disability, I use Passenger Assist ... Great service .... carries your luggage.

thegirlwithemousyhair · 10/11/2024 09:37

I'd say it was bloody inconsiderate of you to cancel at the eleventh hour - not the act of a good friend in my book. Its not a question of it being no big deal to travel alone.You let her down.

Its a 5 hour journey with a couple of changes sitting in train stations alone so there is an element of vulnerability esp if its at night.

More than that, its just thoughtless for you to have 'realised' at the last minute that you had work to do.

I wouldnt have wasted money on another ticket but I would definitely take a different view of you after that. You let her down and regard it as no big deal.

CandidHedgehog · 10/11/2024 09:34

Alondra · 10/11/2024 09:27

The OP didn't flake out on her friend. She had to take a different train because she had work to finish.

Some of you are creating a fake narrative to suit your own imagination instead of properly reading the OP's post and comment with a minimum of common sense.

The fact I don’t agree with you does not mean I haven’t read the post properly, it means…..I don’t agree with you.

Another failure on your part to understand people may have different views on things to you and not be wrong?

betterangels · 10/11/2024 09:31

Alondra · 10/11/2024 09:27

The OP didn't flake out on her friend. She had to take a different train because she had work to finish.

Some of you are creating a fake narrative to suit your own imagination instead of properly reading the OP's post and comment with a minimum of common sense.

Exactly!