Iraq to lower the ‘age of consent’ for girls to nine

The Quran’s Sura 5:33 says about infidels, “They shall be slain or crucified, or have their hands and feet cut off.” Sura 9:5 says, “Slay the infidels wherever you find them ... and lie in wait for them ... and establish every stratagem (of war against them).” Sura 47:4-9 promises paradise to whoever cuts off the head of an infidel.

Can you explain these extracts from the Quran?

America has a big problem with child marriage, because of complex legal loopholes, and it still is, in some parts of the US considered an accepted cultural practice. Of course many states, have outlawed the practice, raising the minimum age to 18, but you would think that this would not be happening in the “land of the free” in 2024. My point is that women and girls are consistently denied basic human rights because of their gender, throughout many parts of the world, add to this the likes of Andrew Tate, and there is a full on blown misogyny movement, to take women back to the dark ages. In that way, we are definitely regressing as societies. The rights that some men are still asking for, legally still debating for, in many parts of the world, in regards to getting access women's and girl’s bodies, in this day and age, is utterly depraved, and just unbelievable to me. If God does exist, why would he allow such horrific abuse, and abuse of any kind to take place? Clearly, he has no interest in helping these poor women and girls. I guess that “he” did not create everyone as equal.

Has what you've outlined here with wider impact been stopped or is it still a possibility do you know?

Exactly, other than prolific paedophilia, why is this even being proposed?

This is not being specifically proposed. What is being proposed is allowing all the different sects to make laws/decisions based on their own beliefs/teachings. This would leave women and girls with basically no rights. It affects more than the age of marriage, like inheritance,divorce,custody etc. Some of the ultra religious sects follow a version of "Islam" that would see the age of 9 as acceptable, which is why it's a possible (likely?!?) outcome. Extremely fucked up , of course.

However, there is no actual law being proposed that says lower age of consent from 18 (15 with permission) to 9.

Exactly, other than prolific paedophilia, why is this even being proposed? What are the benefits to marrying them so early? They can’t have children until they hit puberty. I know that is arriving at an alarmingly early age but 9-10 is still (mercifully?) too physically young to go through childbirth safely.

It must be so that they are legal chattel and sold to these dirty old fucks to move in and become their domestic slaves. And rape victims, let’s be honest. God what a world we live in. There was a poster the other day who was concerned about a number of young male immigrants moving into a hotel local to her, which had been kept quiet. They were from many different countries but it worried her that some were from countries who did not respect or treat women as equals and she had teenaged daughters who would be going out at night in that area. She was absolutely shot down.

Not every country is sexist as a whole, but the two mentioned - Iraq and Afghanistan (and all those with similar attitudes) are indoctrinating their boys and young men into believing this is acceptable there and they will obviously be carrying this idea with them if and when they move elsewhere. Why wouldn't they? Its obvious it is wrong to us, who have laws ensuring equal rights, but misogyny is still very much a thing here in the west and is getting worse thanks to the likes of Andrew Tate et al. Look at what’s happening in AMERICA (the land of the free) with abortion FFS!!!

Women’s rights are being eroded globally and it is frightening to watch it happening so blatantly and to girls so very young. God help them because nobody else will it seems 😢

If you read the complete thread you would know that I was answering someone speculating about what Western countries could do.

Child marriage should be banned everywhere. If you look at other posts I mention the UK too.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "Put your own house in order"?

The USA, s you said has a different legal system and is not supported by Islam (evangelical Christianity is another thing) so why is it legal there? How difficult is it to outlaw it?

I wouldn't like to hear about any 9 year olds being raped of any nationality, religion.

No one is trying to prove all Muslims are bad. You seem paranoid about this. There are good and bad Muslims, the same as good and bad people exist in other religions.

No I wouldn’t either for any of my family members.

This type of behaviour change takes years, as clearly this structure benefits men so a lot are unhappy to see that go and women have equal power - it’s also been a way of life and these tribal affiliations have supported and protected different people through all the different wars and conflicts, also disadvantaged others as well!

In the 50s Iraq kicked out their king, then had a coup in the early 60s another coup in the late 60s, went to war with Iran for the majority of the 80s, decided to invade Kuwait in early 90s, lived under a dictatorship, was invaded by the Americans in the early 2000s, another regime change, saw the rise of ISIS in the 2010’s.

So all that is going on in the background while women are trying to fight and advocate for equal rights, trying to ensure their children are protected etc.

I’m not trying to excuse Iraq for not having a positive society for women and children (I work in children’s rights) - Just trying to show that Iraq and other countries need to be supported to make these changes.

this is obviously a much bigger problem in Iraq, because men have more power in family, community and government than in western countries currently.

A much bigger problem in Iraq is due to the tribal and family structures, for example, I can legally request a divorce by law in Iraq as a woman - there is no law against this (like I could in Europe) however unlike Europe, here you have maybe your tribe, your community and family who will disown if you get divorced, so many women stay in abusive marriages and suffer GBV as they feel trapped due to social stigma.

Ok that's useful. This sounds concerning to me. I wouldn't want my dd to experience those power structures (or any of my dc really) although I appreciate you taking the time to explain in more detail what it's like.

Quite a few pages ago I mentioned Rights legally held VS practice is different.

I think firstly - I do not see the west as having a particular interest in the rights of women.

I see exactly the same problems in Iraq and the west (I also live in Southern Europe and UK in case anyone wonders if I have experience in the west) which are men trying to push women down, subjugate them, use them - this is obviously a much bigger problem in Iraq, because men have more power in family, community and government than in western countries currently.

A much bigger problem in Iraq is due to the tribal and family structures, for example, I can legally request a divorce by law in Iraq as a woman - there is no law against this (like I could in Europe) however unlike Europe, here you have maybe your tribe, your community and family who will disown if you get divorced, so many women stay in abusive marriages and suffer GBV as they feel trapped due to social stigma.

So no women’s rights are not where they need to be in Iraq - I don’t think I or any other posters ever stated that they are.

I also don’t think a lot of men in power give a shit about women, either in the west or in Iraq, I think they are pressured to do so by women in government, human rights groups, women led groups etc.

I think a positive way to support countries like Iraq to invest in social and behaviour change to improve the reality of rights of women and children, would be political pressure, and supporting and uplifting women’s rights orgs.

What on earth has that to do with women's rights in Iraq?
Qatar has expelled Hamas as they're so sick of them.

I mean I’m assuming the law change was proposed the same way shitty men anywhere try to control and subjugate women by whatever means they have at their disposal- not meant to come across as I hate men in general, just when it comes to things like this.

It wasn’t properly voted on because of public backlash and protests.

I’m not really “into” politics so the below is just how I see it.

There’s a lot of backstory to the way things work in Iraq - which is also crazy complicated - so I guess main areas (and please if anyone here IS a politics expert - come and correct me!!) different political groups also have their own militia (kind of like private armies) which can control parts of the country in terms of access, safety, illicit trade….Iraq as a country also has its own army obviously - they mostly kind of just get on with their own bits and don’t interfere too much with each other…. Until something happens that someone really doesn’t like.

Some of these really powerful militia and government officials/ parties are funded by Iran which is a much more hardline country in terms of policies than Iraq. In the current government there is a majority of Shia conservative/hardline Party members, many who are aligned to the interests of Iran - which no doubt would include less rights for women.

I dare say with this specific proposal it wasn’t about “protecting” women at all (as the suggestions were horrible for women and girls, not just the age to me promised for marriage but also inheritance rights) but controlling women and trying to take women’s choice away so they had to be reliant on men.

I’m not an expert, and I’m not even massively “into” politics - I just wanted to highlight some info on the ground about this specific proposal - and then the conversation kind of drifted a bit….

But as I mentioned a few times, just because a country isn’t where others want it to be vis a vis, rights of women, rights of LGBTQIA+ community, child protection - doesn’t mean we should then jump to military intervention, as I think all people are quite attached to not being blown to pieces for any reason.

You've said you want children to be protected but do you mean children that are western and non muslim. It doesn't matter about the muslim children beheaded and dying in gaza because they are just Muslims. Don't advocate for children when you clearly don't care that thousands of them have been slaughtered by Israel

Yes I am asking you overall if you see them as equal

Not your personal views, but generally. Is your answer that you do see them as equal?

That Iraq has the same amount of interest generally in the rights of women and girls as western countries

I'm reading your post that you do think that's the case, but maybe not?

What are your thoughts in this and why they are allowing this? What way do they think if will protect women? As a side note, I’d love you to do an AMA about living there! How did you get into mumsnet?

Thank you :) - although I’m not Muslim, I know earlier there were some Muslim posters on previous pages so they can perhaps comment from a religious perspective - I can only comment from living in the country and am aware of some elements as Iraq is a majority Muslim country.

Thank you for posting your lived experience. It's disgusting people are ignoring you and spouting their thinly veiled hatred of Muslims especially with their "Israel will save the world" bollocks.

Well I live in Iraq, so I probably have a much different opinion to you, who (I don’t know of course) but I assume doesn’t live in Iraq.

And yes I do see the rights of women’s and girls as equally important - since your question asked me “Do I see the rights of women and girls as equally important”

If you’re asking me - do men in Iraq see the rights of women and girls as equally important? or do the current government in Iraq see the rights of women and girls as equally important? - then my answer is - many do, also unfortunately a lot of people see restricting women and girls as a form of protection and also a lot of men, both Middle Eastern and western do not value women at all.

There are many female led organisations and activists working for change in Iraq, alongside international organisations - who were instrumental in the protests and public backlash that had this proposed law abandoned.

Do you see the rights of women and girls as equally important in Iraq as to the west?

Power , control and a push to see how far they can go. The proposal extends beyond this, including women's rights in a divorce, custody, inheritance etc. Somehow that didn't make the headlines.

It's not a "lower" the age of consent law anyway , it's an amendment (that hasn't passed yet)that allows the different sects to legislate according to their own customs/laws/sharia, rather than universal law from the government. If that were to happen, a lot of horrors would befall women and girls in Iraq, and they would have very few, if any rights.

Overall I just find your comment quite sad to be honest, not sad in a pathetic way, I suppose sad that you see what’s currently going on in the world as some sort of existential “Islam Vs the West”

One reason is it’s sad that you think people like those within Hamas speak for Islam? Much like when ISIS ripped through most of Syria and Iraq, I’d like to believe that the majority of people understood the difference between a religion followed by just under 2 billion people, and a group of mostly men who capitalised on a dire situation to spread violence and hate.

The same way we don’t think that Right Wing fundamentalist Christian Americans who want to remove women’s autonomy to their body, and outlaw gay rights are speaking for all Christians.

I am a woman also, and equally believe I equal rights for men, women, members of the LGBTQIA+ community, with protection in place for girls and boys.

I just don’t think bombing our way to equality is the way to go for any state, group or person.

But according to you it is anti-semitic to protest against genocide. Got it.

Francesca P. Albanese
United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories
Perhaps educate yourself then. Yes I think debating with you IS pointless as you are not listening and I’m not going to keep repeating myself.

I honestly can’t understand why they would do this. There is nothing ok about it. All it does is mean there are far fewer ‘criminals’ and a poor girl is instantly married if attacked. Sometimes I hate the world.