Iraq to lower the ‘age of consent’ for girls to nine

the number 1 thing (especially in non muslimcountries) that create a fertile ground for this type of extremism are the types of generalised comments that you made previously - which is why it’s so important those comments are corrected.

Sorry, what? It's comments that cause terrorist attacks? Not grooming/abuse/extreme ideology/promises of glory? But people making comments about how terrorism is scary?

Forgive me for my scepticism but this does not sound remotely true.

I agree @Fizzle1 has been very fair and impartial.

Why not? It's a conversation on the topic

I have found @Fizzle1 responses useful and interesting for example.

“slay the infidels wherever you find them ... and lie in wait for them ... and establish every stratagem (of war against them).” - can’t find this in the Quran in the Surah it says it’s in. Puzzled 🤔 Also I am not a scholar so someone else can answer your question if they are. ‘Spread corruption on earth’ is important too.

Are you asking in good faith? I do think if it was in good faith you would look at the multitude of sources out there - legitimate unbiased sources not on Mumsnet where the goal of some people is to dehumanise Muslims in order to continue the genocide.

In this day and age the ease with which you can find all information is wonderful. Why ask on Mumsnet?

Well that depends on how things are interpreted now. Religion survives for those 1500 years for a reason, teachings are passed to the younger generation.

I am asking for info, on here.

As I’ve said do your own research. It was about wars against oppressive regimes almost 1500 years ago, not now!

The first one is about infidels who spread corruption on earth and make war against God and his apostle.

Who does this include? What counts as 'war against God and his apostle' for example

All of these quotes are out of context and not accurate to what it actually says in Quran. Context and accuracy matters. The first one is about infidels who spread corruption on earth and make war against God and his apostle. The second one is regarding polytheists who break treaties. The third one is for when in battle. ‘AS FOR THOSE who are bent on denying the truth and on barring [others] from the path of God - all their [good] deeds will He let go to waste;

I would urge anyone who is interested to do their own research. These quotes have been used by extremists to justify the bigotry towards Muslims.

I am not a scholar so please don’t take my word for it, do your own research. Anytime you are asked to believe something negative about a group of people, please find out the truth yourself and don’t fall for propaganda.

@EasternStandard similar quotes to a lot in the Bible. I can provide some for you if you want.

In my opinion,(not an expert or religious scholar) The Qu'ran has similarities to the Old Testament. Ultra religious sects tend to embrace those parts more and ignore the rest. All fire and brimstone. Whereas the vast majority of the Western World (that still believes) is more focused on the New Testament.

I appreciate those who are offering insight and I'm wondering about this post, if anyone would like to say more

I remember your last post very well and re read it many times to make sure I was responding correctly. I spent a fair bit of time writing a response that I felt got my point across in as less as a confrontational way as possible, and you did specifically say you would consider yourself Islamophobic.

You’ve now stated it is from fear - and not from hatred - it is still good that your previous post was removed, in the same way a post with someone professing to be an antisemite should also be removed.

All the examples you give are examples of extremists who have been groomed into committing terrible acts. I actually design and manage programs for reintegration of former ISIS members (pretty much as extreme as they come!) who need to be reintegrated back into society, and the number 1 thing (especially in non muslim
countries) that create a fertile ground for this type of extremism are the types of generalised comments that you made previously - which is why it’s so important those comments are corrected.

The best way for all us to combat extremism from any background, is to eliminate the dehumanisation, and othering that creates the space for these extremists to exploit vulnerable people (as no sane normal person decides to blow themselves up! Or behead someone) Because you are correct on one point - it is completely reasonable to be against rape, beheadings, murder and the removal of people’s rights.

It’s not at all racist to say what you just said about fears regarding Hamas, however you didn’t say that in the removed post - you said that you see the conflict in Gaza/Israel as “Islam against the West” which is a pretty racist remark.

Why didn't the half a million people who died under Assad's regime create this level of ire in you?

I described myself as afraid for myself and for women and girls in general if the terrorists of Hamas and Hezbollah win and Sharia Law becomes custom in more places.

I don't hate or discriminate against Muslims. I'm afraid of fundamentalist Islamists - those individuals and religious cults who want to destroy all Jews, destroy the West, enslave women, abuse children, behead teachers, blow up pop stars, stab little girls to death etc. I'm aware that this is not all Muslims by any stretch, and made that clear in my comments. But it's a fact that there are Islamic groups and individuals who are absolutely conducting campaigns of terror, and I don't think it's racist to be a) scared of that, and b) to point this out to others who seem intent on pretending that Hamas is not a genocidal anti-semitic woman-hating cult.

I'm actually pretty offended that my reasonable comments were deleted and so now people can pretend I said all sorts of things. Either let my comments stand so we can debate fairly, or leave me out of it altogether. Stop misrepresenting what I said. My points are perfectly reasonable and fair.

Wow, misogyny much? How convenient for you that my comments have been deleted so you can say whatever you like about them.

Wondering if you reported yourself and got it deleted as it was very shameful?

I actually didn’t report you. Somebody else was obvs offended by your islamophobic comments. I would rather they stayed so everybody could see your hysteria. Anyway no time to keep commenting as often. Working so that my tax money is used to genocide the people of Palestine and Lebanon! 😡🤬

I’m assuming your comment was deleted as you had said that you felt the current conflict in Gaza reflects a more existential battle of Islam vs “The west” which conflates the actions of a terrorist organisation - with a religion followed by nearly 2 billion people, and indirectly associates anyone who follows Islam as being in the same “grouping” as Hamas which I think we can all understand that isn’t the case (and I’m sure you yourself as well wouldn’t associate followers of Islam within your own community as being similar to a prescribed terrorist organisation?)

You also admitted you would categorise yourself as “Islamophobic” and didn’t see a problem with that.

I’m not going to debate our different views on the conflict in general as there is free speech and you have the right to say “I think Israel is right” , in the same way I have the right to say “I think Israel is wrong”

However, it is quite concerning that you don’t see self identifying as “Islamophobic” to be within the scope of hate speech ….seeing as Islamophobia is described as a hatred, dislike, discrimination or hostility towards someone purely for the reason they are Muslim.

In the same way that there is no place for antisemitism, the hatred of a person purely based on their Jewish identity, there is equally no place for Islamophobia and the hatred of a person purely based on their Muslim identity.

I agree that not being allowed to question a leader or state's actions under the accusation of racism or anti-semitism is not helpful and is fucking ridiculous.

It’s censorship.

On a side note - Netanyahu seems EXTREMELY keen that Trump has won the presidency - that should surely ring alarm bells.

I was agreeing with you, and ‘God help
them’ was being used as the phrase, similar to ‘God only knows’, it wasn’t meant to be literal. I was going to clarify that in my post, anticipating a reaction like yours but didn’t think I’d need to. I obv did. And now have. The end.

You mean the argument that was deleted? Why is criticism of the actions of the State of Israel anti semitic ? Do you really see the most satisfactory outcome as the West prevailing given what this means, and has already meant for the civilians in Gaza ?

That’s not what this poster said. She didn’t say ‘the Jews can’t be trusted’ she said the state of Israel as an actor in this conflict can’t be trusted. It’s not the same thing at all. So many Jewish people are appalled at what Israel is doing, but you’re probably not aware of that because it doesn’t fit your inflammatory and inaccurate narrative.