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Private Schools- hear me out before you judge!

334 replies

Silverbook · 08/11/2024 13:01

I'm a state school teacher in Scotland. Class sizes are - 25 for P1, 30 for P2-3 and 33 for P4-7. I currently have a class size of 25, most classes in the school are 25-28. Relatively small town- 2 primaries, 1 independent and 1 secondary. The next nearest independent is 45 mins away.

The local independent school is closing due to VAT, the pupils are largely coming here. This is pushing all our class sizes up. No extra funding or staff, obviously. My issue with independent schools closing is that is directly impacting the state sector and no extra funding, resources or infrastructure is in place to support it.

Yes, our classes are still within legal limits but it will always be the most disadvantaged children/those with greater need of support who are impacted most by larger class sizes as there is just less time to spend with them.

I really feel this has been a poorly thought through and knee jerk policy. Surely you invest and create capacity in existing resources before increasing pupil numbers?

OP posts:
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NeedToChangeName · 09/11/2024 17:10

Heatherbell1978 · 09/11/2024 13:55

@Arran2024 Based on what? The private schools in Edinburgh have already seen huge reductions in people applying and all of the state schools are full. I don't doubt parents will struggle through the next couple of years if kids are doing exams. But what happens in the years to come when the already full state schools are expected to take the kids who would have otherwise used private schools?

All of the state schools in Edinburgh are not full

Some are oversubscribed

TotteringonGently · 09/11/2024 17:08

Yolo12345 · 09/11/2024 09:39

I don't think they are just closing due to VAT.

Brexit has pushed up prices for everything

Staffing is problematic

Parents are increasingly demanding

They are not making the profits they once were...

They could choose to fundraise and offset some of the rising costs but of course thst would be a lot of work

Don't forget the National Insurnace contributions going up! The schools that had just about balanced their budgets for VAT didn't see that one coming. It's a double whammy from Rachel and Bridget who don't see privately educated children as 'our children' according to that fatuous tweet about astroturfs and embossed stationery.

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 17:08

@twistyizzy I’m happy to be corrected. Please could you PM me the name so I can fact check myself? I’m not coming up with anything at all other than the merger of Glenalmond and Craigclowan which I’m really pleased about as I hadn’t realised or had happened and feared for a while the Craigclowan would be an early victim.

StandingSideBySide · 09/11/2024 17:04

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 17:00

@twistyizzy believe me if another independent school had closed in Scotland since August I would have heard about it. I’m in plenty of groups where a big deal would have been made of it.

OP states the school is closing ie…hasn’t yet !
Happy to wait and see if MNHQ are in a position to confirm

twistyizzy · 09/11/2024 17:03

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 17:00

@twistyizzy believe me if another independent school had closed in Scotland since August I would have heard about it. I’m in plenty of groups where a big deal would have been made of it.

OK but I've been given the name of one that closed end August. I'm probably in the same group/s but it hasn't been published on there

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 17:00

@twistyizzy believe me if another independent school had closed in Scotland since August I would have heard about it. I’m in plenty of groups where a big deal would have been made of it.

Another76543 · 09/11/2024 16:54

yorktown · 09/11/2024 14:42

It's a real shame you think that.
93% of kids are not in private schools and at least some of those are getting a good education, my own kids included.

There is no good state education available for my children. Zero. None. I’ve checked, out of interest. The schools available are one which “requires improvement” or another where only 17% pass maths and English GCSE.

twistyizzy · 09/11/2024 16:52

Sawlt · 09/11/2024 16:48

In London, recently a private school announced closure to parents and it was not “in the news”
Not at all surprised that you cannot fact check this … who would be calling BBC, or Guardian and get any interest in this as a “news”

Exactly yet some posters immediately rush to the "you are lying" position.

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 16:49

Arran2024 · 09/11/2024 16:42

Tbh, the local authority would pay for transport to take your son to and from a mld school. This could even be a daily taxi.

The thing about his IQ levels is that he is firmly in the mld camp. Usually they take children with a score of between 50 and 70. My daughter's is 56.

My experience of working with parents on their child's ehc was that so many fathers in particular really struggled to accept what was happening. Some families moved home eg to Pakistan, India rather than have a diagnosis or a place in a unit or specialist school.

But the children themselves usually love it. They have friends. They can access the curriculum fully. They get to do trips suitable for them.

Yes it's mostly life skills. But kids my daughter went to mld school with have jobs - in Costa, in our local cinema, in nurseries, garden centres, hospitals etc.

It might be worth exploring. I don't know where you might move to but the ehc system is brilliant for yp from 16 to 25. Have a look at your LA Web site under Loxal Offer and see what's available. If you need some support, try your local sendiass team x

Arran I am going to pm you to try and explain why transport would not work. But i do, really, appreciate your thoughts. It's too outing to post online.

StandingSideBySide · 09/11/2024 16:49

twistyizzy · 09/11/2024 16:46

Yes there is

@Jennaveeve I have asked MNHQ to see if they can verify this with OP. It’s understandable if they don’t want to name the school.

Sawlt · 09/11/2024 16:48

In London, recently a private school announced closure to parents and it was not “in the news”
Not at all surprised that you cannot fact check this … who would be calling BBC, or Guardian and get any interest in this as a “news”

twistyizzy · 09/11/2024 16:46

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Yes there is

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 16:44

StandingSideBySide · 09/11/2024 16:38

Maybe Cedars school in Greenock - an all through Indi school.
Greenock is not that big a town
Although see that was one that announced closure after Labours tax announcement and before they came in to power

Edited

Nope. Because the OP says that 84 children are transferring to her school alone, and Cedars was closing was because they had fewer pupils than that in total.

swimsong · 09/11/2024 16:44

Another76543 · 08/11/2024 16:33

They didn’t even get a large number of votes. Only 1 in 3 voters voted for them, suggesting that 2 in 3 voters don’t agree with their policies.

Over 60% voted for a left/centre/progressive party.

Less than 40% voted for rightwing/Conservative/Reform.

StandingSideBySide · 09/11/2024 16:43

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Trolling!

Arran2024 · 09/11/2024 16:42

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 16:00

We don't have a mld school near us. We live very rurally. There is a special needs school but it focuses on life skills, not education. That was not our choice 11 years ago. As time has gone on though it has become clearer that this might have been better in the long term. We are in a bot of flux right now. DH was a boarding school boy (Stowe) and wanted Ds to go to boarding school which would have been a disaster. We put Ds in the indy on the understanding he would stay there for as long as it worked for him. TBh I am not 100% sure it will work for him from now going forwards. We do need to really consider it all tbh. But I just don't see our future here in the UK any more and my priority is keeping him safe and well. I want DS to be safe and happy and to get through school in some sort of way.

I don;'t know., I feel confused and helpless a bit

Tbh, the local authority would pay for transport to take your son to and from a mld school. This could even be a daily taxi.

The thing about his IQ levels is that he is firmly in the mld camp. Usually they take children with a score of between 50 and 70. My daughter's is 56.

My experience of working with parents on their child's ehc was that so many fathers in particular really struggled to accept what was happening. Some families moved home eg to Pakistan, India rather than have a diagnosis or a place in a unit or specialist school.

But the children themselves usually love it. They have friends. They can access the curriculum fully. They get to do trips suitable for them.

Yes it's mostly life skills. But kids my daughter went to mld school with have jobs - in Costa, in our local cinema, in nurseries, garden centres, hospitals etc.

It might be worth exploring. I don't know where you might move to but the ehc system is brilliant for yp from 16 to 25. Have a look at your LA Web site under Loxal Offer and see what's available. If you need some support, try your local sendiass team x

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/11/2024 16:39

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Didn’t a school close near Perth recently?

MummyJ12 · 09/11/2024 16:38

SabrinaThwaite · 09/11/2024 16:28

You mean The Telegraph took Guido’s post and regurgitated it?

The Telegraph is more reputable and relevant would you not agree? I’m sure they wouldn’t do such as thing as simply regurgitate. However, when facts are facts, they read the same.

StandingSideBySide · 09/11/2024 16:38

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Maybe Cedars school in Greenock - an all through Indi school.
Greenock is not that big a town
Although see that was one that announced closure after Labours tax announcement and before they came in to power

decisionsdecisionsdecision · 09/11/2024 16:36

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 16:16

@decisionsdecisionsdecision how can a state primary be a feeder school for an independent from P4?

In Scotland the name feeder school is given to state schools that see a large proportion of their children move to private. We see approx 3 a class leave at p4, 5 a class at p5 up to about 25% end of p7. Last year we saw only 3 children go private at the end of p7 and none left from p6!

MummyJ12 · 09/11/2024 16:35

Ohthatsabitshit · 09/11/2024 16:21

VAT on school fees and the removal of ridiculous charity status would I think affect all of us, it would be a fairer set up and I think it’s time adults in the UK started living how we should not how we have. It’s an odd observation because it was presented in a way that sounded like a gleeful gotcha.

I have attended, been a parent in, (and indeed observed in) many different types of educational establishment and probably have a good understanding of many of the concerns expressed over this issue. I think it was a good decision and all our children will be better for it. I know many private school parents are not happy but I suspect for the majority they are going to be pleasantly surprised.

I really hope that you are right. I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way either.
One thing is for sure, we’re going to find out one way or another because no matter what we say, post, do or think, it’s happening.

BotanicalGreen · 09/11/2024 16:34

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SabrinaThwaite · 09/11/2024 16:32

twistyizzy · 09/11/2024 16:06

Hint: NOT from Guido
"Labour minister faces an investigation by the sleaze watchdog over claims he failed to declare his 20-year friendship with the author of the report used to justify the Government’s private school tax raid.
Matthew Pennycook has been referred to the parliamentary commissioner for standards for not revealing his close relationship with Luke Sibieta, who wrote the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) paper on Labour’s plans"

But don't let that stop you belittling me

Belittling you? Give over.

I said you shouldn’t rely on getting your info from a political blogger who makes a living from clickbait.

SabrinaThwaite · 09/11/2024 16:28

MummyJ12 · 09/11/2024 16:05

Ok, I get your point.

Here’s a Telegraph article for you instead, which basically reads the same as the Guido one.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/07/report-used-laboursupport-private-school-vat-close-friend/

You mean The Telegraph took Guido’s post and regurgitated it?

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 16:26

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