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Original poster

Private Schools- hear me out before you judge!

334 replies

Silverbook · 08/11/2024 13:01

I'm a state school teacher in Scotland. Class sizes are - 25 for P1, 30 for P2-3 and 33 for P4-7. I currently have a class size of 25, most classes in the school are 25-28. Relatively small town- 2 primaries, 1 independent and 1 secondary. The next nearest independent is 45 mins away.

The local independent school is closing due to VAT, the pupils are largely coming here. This is pushing all our class sizes up. No extra funding or staff, obviously. My issue with independent schools closing is that is directly impacting the state sector and no extra funding, resources or infrastructure is in place to support it.

Yes, our classes are still within legal limits but it will always be the most disadvantaged children/those with greater need of support who are impacted most by larger class sizes as there is just less time to spend with them.

I really feel this has been a poorly thought through and knee jerk policy. Surely you invest and create capacity in existing resources before increasing pupil numbers?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BotanicalGreen · 09/11/2024 18:39

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:37

Still waiting for link.

Buy the biography. Who knows, it might open your mind!

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:37

Still waiting for link.

BotanicalGreen · 09/11/2024 18:36

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:14

No Op- I meant can the pp post about Starmers dad's flipping shed and impoverished tool making status. :) x

I have my doubts tbh.

Of course you have your doubts. It's called prejudice.

BotanicalGreen · 09/11/2024 18:35

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:10

Good stuff. I am googling. Can you post a link that confirms?

His biography.

Original poster
Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:29

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:23

I was looking for discussion around the lack of foresight of the policy

I don't think it has much to do with the VAT policy, the school got into difficulties long before that was discussed.

They were due to be bought but the investor pulled out due to VAT. Straw and camels came to mind.

OP posts:
StandingSideBySide · 09/11/2024 18:28

VAT on private schools plus the increased employer NI payments at the same time are too much for schools.
Many of which don’t make a lot of money.

Clearly Lamond parents are moving schools in the expectation that it will close due to new financial pressures on the school.

Many Indi schools however are able to claim back VAT elsewhere, that’s not going to help all schools, including Lamond, though.

Sawlt · 09/11/2024 18:28

It won’t just be the VAT impacting impacting costs, it’s the employers NI increase, some min wage increases. Already struggling prob can’t cope with extra costs.

Buyer taking on same costs. Deal now less attractive.

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:28

It may have been a small school that was not profitable. And now we have VAT. So what happens? It really is the straw and camel as another poster said. It may have limped on for a bit, but for that bit it was serving a purpose. Now it can't. I my area our school costs £25 k a year. We have one single other indy that costs under £10 k. That indy does not have charitable status and is run by a wierd arse meglomaniac who does not have any educational quals and is rather hysterical. When I toured the school about 5 years back to see what options were out there it was a bit horrifying for a whole range of reasons which I will not go into.

Original poster
Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:26

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:22

Apologies, I no longer think you are a troll, although you did seem to suggest that your school has already taken on a large number of pupils when I am guessing you haven't had any or many, and it is as yet unclear what the numbers will be.

The article I looked at suggests the school has been struggling financially for a long time. I don't honestly think it is a VAT issue, just a small school that is not profitable. It happens - as I say it happened to my school - and everyone adapts.

Show quote history

Writing on a form isn’t the best was to converse. It can be hard to get the key point across without writing screeds. Thanks for apologising!

I know VAT in the main cause - I’m actually indifferent to the policy as it doesn’t pillage my family as such. Professionally I just wish more capacity was created in the state sector as we knew independent schools were already struggling.

OP posts:
TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:23

I was looking for discussion around the lack of foresight of the policy

I don't think it has much to do with the VAT policy, the school got into difficulties long before that was discussed.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:22

Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:14

I realise you think I’m a troll but I’m not. 84 is not the whole school. It’s the primary sector. The vast majority will come to one of 2 local schools. There is another school but it’s RC. We can quibble over exact numbers of take the theme if my post which was I think this policy could have been better planned for.

Show quote history

Apologies, I no longer think you are a troll, although you did seem to suggest that your school has already taken on a large number of pupils when I am guessing you haven't had any or many, and it is as yet unclear what the numbers will be.

The article I looked at suggests the school has been struggling financially for a long time. I don't honestly think it is a VAT issue, just a small school that is not profitable. It happens - as I say it happened to my school - and everyone adapts.

Original poster
Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:21

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 18:18

So it’s not definitely closing and you’ve not actually had any pupils from them yet?

We have as some parents wanted to be in control of the move rather than wait until there was a scrabble of places when it does close.
Im not not going to further debate the authenticity of this.
I was looking for discussion around the lack of foresight of the policy.

OP posts:
Hothotdamage · 09/11/2024 18:21

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 18:18

So it’s not definitely closing and you’ve not actually had any pupils from them yet?

No , I think someone's imagination has runaway. The accounts have been late for years , on the face of it , it hasn't been well run.

Boohoo76 · 09/11/2024 18:20

The problem is that once word gets out that a school is in trouble, parents start to remove their children so it is likely that the OP’s school has already received pupils from this school.

lasagnelle · 09/11/2024 18:19

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

I can't believe people made you do this I'm so sorry

Jennaveeve · 09/11/2024 18:18

So it’s not definitely closing and you’ve not actually had any pupils from them yet?

Hothotdamage · 09/11/2024 18:17

The link says they have had difficulties but have a plan to keep going, is there a update or a new article?

Original poster
Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:14

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:12

I don't see anything except the Cedars school?

But if 84 is the entire school, that was never going to survive! And are you assuming they will all just transfer to you, even though there is another primary school? It seems unlikely.

Show quote history

I realise you think I’m a troll but I’m not. 84 is not the whole school. It’s the primary sector. The vast majority will come to one of 2 local schools. There is another school but it’s RC. We can quibble over exact numbers of take the theme if my post which was I think this policy could have been better planned for.

OP posts:
Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:14

No Op- I meant can the pp post about Starmers dad's flipping shed and impoverished tool making status. :) x

I have my doubts tbh.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:12

Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:10

The school roll. Googling will show the school.

Show quote history

I don't see anything except the Cedars school?

But if 84 is the entire school, that was never going to survive! And are you assuming they will all just transfer to you, even though there is another primary school? It seems unlikely.

Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Original poster
Silverbook · 09/11/2024 18:10

TheYearOfSmallThings · 09/11/2024 18:05

It's not taken out of context, you said that 84 children "have come to our school".

Where did the figure 84 come from?

The school roll. Googling will show the school.

OP posts:
Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:10

Good stuff. I am googling. Can you post a link that confirms?

BotanicalGreen · 09/11/2024 18:08

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:06

Did he not own the tool factory?

It was practically a flipping shed. They were really not well off at all.

Parry5timesbeforedeath · 09/11/2024 18:06

Did he not own the tool factory?

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