To think primary schools now days are more misogynistic amongst the boys, than in the past?

Thanks for that gem of insight.

I don't have my head in the sand, I parent my child and we discuss these things when they come up.

Society has changed, therefore our offspring change and its up to parents to guide. My ds isn't idolising Trump or looking for a "trad wife". But he is a boy, he is male, he does take up space because he's taller than me at age 12....he isn't taking up space to intimidate me or anyone else. Yes there are many men that do, but those misogynistic idiots have existed since time began. I dont see it as getting worse as such. We are seeing it more due to social media and more access to things generally.

Children today are influenced by friends, classmates, parents and social media. As parents, it's our responsibility to educate them. We should explain to them who people like Trump and Tate are and that there's absolutely nothing funny or admirable about them"

DD (11) was bullied by a boy in Y1. Our complaints were ignored, so DH and I encouraged her to stand up for herself, and eventually the bullying stopped.
It's very distressing that children sometimes have to resort to self defense to stop bullying.

DS (9), who is a kind and loving soul, was teased by a girl on his 8th birthday for playing with dolls. She called him a "sissy", so I had a chat with her mum. She apologized, apparently she hadn't realised that her words had hurt him. They're still friends to this day.
Fortunately, none of his classmates hold misogynistic views and I will never, ever allow him to be friends with a Tate supporter!

Get your head out of the sand.

Thing is though it starts young and continues. We’re lucky at our primary as we have big grounds for playtime but you still see a bit of dominance from the boys. But physical play is so important for all the children. There seems to be a bit of a cycle in ours where bad behaviour is punished by taking away play time but I honestly think a lot of the behaviour would probably be better if there was at least an hour of PE every day and less intense learning about fronted adverbials.

You think manspreading and intimidating women is ok? I think you need to check your own misogyny. Jeez.

All of which is a different quality from quoting Andrew Tate, or bragging about running over prostitutes in grand theft auto, or joking about sexually assaulting girls, or using homophobic insults etc. That unequivocally needs to be challenged because it’s objectively misogynistic and unacceptable.

I’m horrified someone mentioned up thread that there are primary schools where children aren’t allowed to run in the playground. I mean what else are playgrounds for if not running around and playing?

Some of this feels anti-child as much as anti boy. I’d love to see some actual evidence based pedagogy on this type of thing. I also think understanding a bit of neuroscience is no bad thing - I don’t think girls will be girls and boys will be boys, but I do think children need to be given some grace and kindness to mature and develop.

I get the point the poster is making about 15 year old boy sitting with his legs akimbo and speaking with booming voices. Attributing it to “entitlement” or trying to “intimidate” does feel like overlaying intentions that may well not be there because they are children their finding way. I mean I was always playing off my 2 best friends against each other when I was at school. The adult term would be psychological abuse or coercive control for some of the ways we were all behaving, but that’s not how I’d describe any of us now.

You've got quite a nerve to come to Mumsnet and promote Tate. If you nurture this sort of belief set at home, do be careful your precious boy doesn't get referred to Prevent.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/12/rapid-rise-in-andrew-tate-related-cases-referred-to-prevent-by-schools

DS remembers getting beaten up by a classmate in primary. This boy also beat a girl up. This was about 13 years ago. Don't think it was any better in the past

And more darvo, nicely illustrating my point. Interesting you think your son deserves respect but teachers don't. A teacher has shared her experience with entitled male behaviour. Your reluctance to consider her experience and discomfort says a lot. You could homeschool if you find teachers are not respectful enough to your boy?

You wrote it, not me. The way they sit is a problem, the way they stand is a problem, their voices are probably too loud and deep as well, right? In fact, the World would be a much better place without their lot. For an individual boy, that's a horrible thing for them to pick up on. On a societal level, there seems to be pushback. Misguided and a massive overcorrection maybe (not that I listen to much Andrew Tate tbf) but understandable I think. In a funny way I'm a little bit proud of them ✊

You have decided I have no respect for 50% of my students. Not me.

This is part of the problem.

If we’re not allowed to comment on boys taking up all the room so that nobody else has any, standing too close to others on purpose in order to intimidate them, using all of the space on the playground nobody else can, without “shaming” boys for “being male”, then were never going to improve anything.

These behaviours aren’t “being male” - they’re behaviours which we tolerate in the male sex because we live in a patriarchal society, but they’re not inherent in the male sex. Patriarchy hurts boys who don’t conform to the behaviour you describe as “being male” - they’re seen as sissies or betas or accused of being gay.

It limits young boys so much to essentially say that they’re boys so can’t have consideration for others and must intimidate them, because they’re male and that’s just what they do. A person challenging that is doing way more to help boys grow and learn than someone who stands there and cheers them on as they take over everything and prevent others having it, because “being male” is apparently something teachers need to actively celebrate or they’re contributing to the problem.

No, just disappointed that my DS is likely to be taught by people with so little respect for him.

Another example of darvo 😴

As I said, you can think what you like. You can also choose to ignore a professional opinion and observation and instead choose to think I merely hate boys.

@Combattingthemoaners Yes, pretty much every single one, unless it's an aspect of the curriculum where choices over role models are nigh on impossible, for example the Anglo-Saxons. Anything non-statutory will be a woman or person of colour.

For example, in a recent Space topic, Neil Armstrong was replaced with Frederick D. Gregory. In 'Aviators', Amelia Earhart has been replaced with Bessie Coleman. All three of the picture books that DD covered in her Yr2 class last term had female POC protagonists. Remembrance Day assembly focused on the perspective of Black British soldiers fighting in the Normandy landings. Last year we were asked to research a science role model for a science topic, but they had to be Black (each class was allocated a different scientist).

As I said, I have zero issue with diversity and cultural representation, but I strongly believe that this full-on expunging of white men from the curriculum is going to backfire massively in the long-term. I am totally on board with the adage: 'You can't be it if you can't see it' - and certainly in DD's school at present the white working class boys aren't 'seeing it'.

My sister & I are amazed at some of the things our brother gets up to at school. We had to frequently take him aside and make him realise that girls were PEOPLE with as much right to exist as he had, and that the girls changing rooms were not places for him and his mates to hang around! This was when he was 7 or 8. He's now 11 and my sister (who's 16) and one of her friends keep a firm eye on what he and his mates get up to!

Dunno. It mainly sounds like you don't like boys. Presumably those that you teach pick up on that, have to look elsewhere for validation that being male is OK, and into the arms of Tate et al.

I think that you might well be part of the problem.

I am a child of the 70’s where the “new” ideas on child raising were all based around equality- letting boys play with dolls etc.

i find the whole blue brain/pink brain thing contributes. People are convinced boys and girls socialised behaviours are due to biology, which is leading us back down the path that girls should be soft and gentle, look after kids etc while boys do the big alpha macho thing.

saw it last week on a fb post- someone actually witnessed a kid being beaten up. Then prefaced their post with “it might have just boys being boys”. Nope. If a kid is on the floor being kicked it is not normal male behaviour.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. It isn’t how they sit or move around. It’s the deliberate taking up of space, in an unnecessary way. It’s the use of their 6ft+ frame to try and intimidate females. You can think what you like but I see it day-in-day-out. I’m not the reason for a rise in misogyny, I’m merely observing it.

Primary school kids especially do parrot what they see and hear politicians saying - I remember kids talking about "an oven ready" brexit a few years back.

It does sound a bit like boy bashing when you are criticising them for how they sit and stand. How's their moving around? OK for you or a bit too boyish?

With teachers opinions like that, I'm not surprised that teenagers are lapping up the likes of Tate.

Every single white man? Kings? Scientists? Authors? Painters?