The Times newspaper is left wing

Thatsenoughcoffee · 2024-11-07T09:50:14+00:00

The Times has been moving to the left for years. They’re trying to compete with The Guardian as much as The Telegraph. They try to reflect the politics of the middle and governing classes which veer left. It’s a high quality publication, but as a conservative I read it knowing there will be many left-wing writers whose opinions I disagree with. Hugo Rifkind is one example. The news stories also veer left - for instance the recent attack on the finances of the Royal Family which was carried out in conjunction with Channel 4. There is also a lot of focus on Gaza and not much support for Israel. My feed on X by contrast is properly right wing. And also low status. AIBU to think The Times is left wing?

LostittoBostik · 12/11/2024 19:04

casapenguin · 07/11/2024 15:33

I’m enjoying this thread because it’s one of the rare time you see a discussion around left/liberal disntinctions. I really think we miss out in the U.K. from not doing much ‘political philosophy’ either in school or in our media discourse so it’s easy to fall into the trap of ‘lefty liberal’ being the same thing, when it’s not.

also op, I really do not think Kamala Harris qualifies as leftist. The democrats are tories to me, I don’t think America has a mainstream left.

Good point

LBFseBrom · 12/11/2024 13:44

I've always found The Times to be balanced, there will be an article by someone moderately left and a feature by another journalist who is fairly right wing. It has always been so and quite a good read.

Littlemissgobby · 07/11/2024 16:13

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2024 16:12

My dear, you can't shift newspapers if you don't reflect the beliefs of your readership enough. The idea that Murdoch controls this fully is also idiotic.

The Murdochs don't care on two accounts 1) as long as they make money b) the owners aren't held to account.

Everyone else is fair game...

Show quote history

It is still to the right though no matter what you say it is not liberal

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2024 16:12

Littlemissgobby · 07/11/2024 16:09

Bull crap the times isn’t liberal dear oh dear it’s owned by the same people that do the Sun ffs

Show quote history

My dear, you can't shift newspapers if you don't reflect the beliefs of your readership enough. The idea that Murdoch controls this fully is also idiotic.

The Murdochs don't care on two accounts 1) as long as they make money b) the owners aren't held to account.

Everyone else is fair game...

Littlemissgobby · 07/11/2024 16:10

anniegun · 07/11/2024 16:09

The Times is definitely to the right. They have had a meltdown over school fees and inheritance tax hardly left wing concerns. They bang on about public sector pay rises and unions as if it was the 70s

Yes but this poster at a hunch is further maybe a bit Mein Kampf territory

Littlemissgobby · 07/11/2024 16:09

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2024 16:06

The Times will reflect the political views of its readership to no small degree.

It's a liberal newspaper. It believes most the concept of liberalism being a counter to hold power to account. And liberalism allows people to socially live as they like without being told what to do. Liberalism in terms of the market operating with too much government intervention also exists.

Our understanding of liberalism has shifted to this false one about having set specific values has unfortunately confused matters. As has a growing acceptance that a greater degree of government intervention in economic matters - particularly with regards to healthcare has crept in.

But it hasn't really changed that much. The world around it has though.

Bull crap the times isn’t liberal dear oh dear it’s owned by the same people that do the Sun ffs

anniegun · 07/11/2024 16:09

The Times is definitely to the right. They have had a meltdown over school fees and inheritance tax hardly left wing concerns. They bang on about public sector pay rises and unions as if it was the 70s

Littlemissgobby · 07/11/2024 16:08

LostittoBostik · 07/11/2024 14:15

@Thatsenoughcoffee

"William Hague is a massive leftie"

That's ridiculous. He holds centre right views.
OP, I think you are the Overton window in action and have moved a long way across the dial and would probably quite enjoy the new telegraph (which is no longer a paper of record as a result of being pitched so far right in the last decade)

Re: Trump. There are good reasons for right wing Brits to be concerned even they're pro the culture side. One in every £11 of our exports go to the US and he's whacking on trade tariffs. And of course we chose to leave the EU so we've shrunk our market there.

Thing is though some people like this poster have gone so far to the right think Enoch Powell level that any thing we would see as the right like hague or even thatcher as she wanted to be part of the EU. Are not to the right enough. That’s why I believe the tories we have now with reform are on the margins of the far right which many like this poster like. As I told him he needs to stick to the mail or express

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2024 16:06

The Times will reflect the political views of its readership to no small degree.

It's a liberal newspaper. It believes most the concept of liberalism being a counter to hold power to account. And liberalism allows people to socially live as they like without being told what to do. Liberalism in terms of the market operating with too much government intervention also exists.

Our understanding of liberalism has shifted to this false one about having set specific values has unfortunately confused matters. As has a growing acceptance that a greater degree of government intervention in economic matters - particularly with regards to healthcare has crept in.

But it hasn't really changed that much. The world around it has though.

Littlemissgobby · 07/11/2024 16:06

The times isn’t left wing it’s owned by Rupert murdoch judging by what you want stick to the mail and express that should get you frothing at the mouth for some rabid right wing views

Original poster

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 15:53

Murdoch link again:

www.nytimes.com/2024/07/24/business/media/rupert-murdoch-succession-fox.html

OP posts:

crackofdoom · 07/11/2024 15:53

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 14:04

Surely someone who dreamed of a Kamala victory can be described as left-wing?

Show quote history

The American Democrats couldn't really be described as classically left wing, no.

Original poster

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 15:51

amicissimma · 07/11/2024 15:46

I would say that The Times is aimed more at the public/service sector, eg academics, all sorts of medical employees, public sector broadcasting and the arts, etc, while The Telegraph is aimed more at the private/wealth-creating sector, eg business owners, company leaders, investors, etc.

I also think that both aim to be more rigorous and less dramatic than The Guardian, more directly on the left, and The Mail, more directly on the right.

That is not to say that any one of the four publications doesn't often have articles that I would expect to find in a different one, but that's how i find the general tone of each.

Thanks, that’s a good analysis. The people you describe The Times as aiming at would have made up the bulk of Guardian readers 10 or 20 years ago.

OP posts:

Original poster

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 15:49

Pineapplesandthegovernmentandpunkrock · 07/11/2024 15:35

Rupert Murdoch is a republican, hence his going after the royal family. But he is not of the left at all (in so far as he has any influence over editorial policy).

Edited

Surely the 93 year old Rupert Murdoch has zero involvement in any aspect of The Times now.

Edit: But here’s a NYTimes article that says Murdoch is trying to ensure his media companies including The Times pass on to Lachlan alone, so they stay conservative:

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2024.09.14-213635/www.nytimes.com/2024/07/24/business/media/rupert-murdoch-succession-fox.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2024.09.14-213635/www.nytimes.com/2024/07/24/business/media/rupert-murdoch-succession-fox.html

OP posts:

amicissimma · 07/11/2024 15:46

I would say that The Times is aimed more at the public/service sector, eg academics, all sorts of medical employees, public sector broadcasting and the arts, etc, while The Telegraph is aimed more at the private/wealth-creating sector, eg business owners, company leaders, investors, etc.

I also think that both aim to be more rigorous and less dramatic than The Guardian, more directly on the left, and The Mail, more directly on the right.

That is not to say that any one of the four publications doesn't often have articles that I would expect to find in a different one, but that's how i find the general tone of each.

Pineapplesandthegovernmentandpunkrock · 07/11/2024 15:35

Rupert Murdoch is a republican, hence his going after the royal family. But he is not of the left at all (in so far as he has any influence over editorial policy).

casapenguin · 07/11/2024 15:33

I’m enjoying this thread because it’s one of the rare time you see a discussion around left/liberal disntinctions. I really think we miss out in the U.K. from not doing much ‘political philosophy’ either in school or in our media discourse so it’s easy to fall into the trap of ‘lefty liberal’ being the same thing, when it’s not.

also op, I really do not think Kamala Harris qualifies as leftist. The democrats are tories to me, I don’t think America has a mainstream left.

Original poster

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 15:26

ClytemnestraWasMisunderstood · 07/11/2024 15:20

Yes but you were comparing it to the Times!

Show quote history

Yes, the point I made is that The Times tries to compete with an obviously left wing paper (Guardian) as much as it does with an obviously right wing paper (Telegraph).

OP posts:

ClytemnestraWasMisunderstood · 07/11/2024 15:20

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 09:57

We’re talking about The Times though

Show quote history

Yes but you were comparing it to the Times!

Annabella92 · 07/11/2024 14:55

Catza · 07/11/2024 13:54

Transgender issues are very complex and I am actually saddened to see that discourse is mostly concerned with male-to-female transitions and the ramifications of it. Again, I respect the threat to female identity and safety. I, perhaps, don't accept the premise that it is cis female-only issue. But also, where are transgender males in this debate?
I have been very lucky in that I have a close friend whom I have known since we were 14. He is a trans man and I witnessed his entire journey to transition at the time when he didn't have any/many options and I have seen a devastating effect it had on her early life. He is doing remarkably well today and with that, I can't fully support one-size-fits-all approach. But I am also not able to express this view in many contexts. I am attacked from the right and the left for opposing reasons. Which is why, I think it is so important to understand the nuances and speak to real people where you can.
My partner and I had many heated political discussions and both of us learned something from it. So if you feel that social media and mainstream media are not a good place for you, try to have open and respectful conversation with someone who feels a million miles away from your own "crowd". But approach it as an active listener, ask questions and don't rush to change their mind.
I also, respectfully, don't agree with throwing the baby with the bath water. It's quite OK to be liberal but disagree with transactivism rather than judge an entire political group and their ideas on the basis of one issue. I have a big bone to pick with feminism, for example, but I can't deny that the movement made some real differences to women over the years. I've experienced the horrors of communism but I still believe in broad socialist values such as social justice, community cooperation and, to an extent, economic equality.

Show quote history

I have no idea where I could encounter someone willing to discuss these issues with me. It's just not likely to happen.

80smonster · 07/11/2024 14:52

I see The Times as centrist, The Telegraph as right and The Guardian as left. I wouldn’t describe TT as remotely left wing per se.

Original poster

Thatsenoughcoffee · 07/11/2024 14:49

BIossomtoes · 07/11/2024 14:34

I think they might be. They just have an incredibly skewed view of what constitutes right and left.

Show quote history

FWIW, in the recent election I voted SDP. I’d say above all I’m culturally and socially conservative.

OP posts:

SnoopysHoose · 07/11/2024 14:39

OP thinks anyone other than their very conservative views is left.
It's quite an American view, socialism, supporting anyone else, immigrants etc and you're a lefties/communist.

BIossomtoes · 07/11/2024 14:34

CurlewKate · 07/11/2024 14:16

The OP is not posting in good faith.

I think they might be. They just have an incredibly skewed view of what constitutes right and left.

LostittoBostik · 07/11/2024 14:23

Ginmonkeyagain · 07/11/2024 14:19

@Thepeopleversuswork Yes. Similarly I am centre left, socially liberal, fan of mixed economies (private ownership but state ownership where it makes sense) and pro personal responibility. There are many on the left now who see me as a massive Tory 😬

Same here. But they are mainly social media keyboard warriors. And men who claim they are feminists while leaving women who want kids and to date 10 years younger and then wonder in public about declining birth rates.

And they don't represent the majority of left wing views.