Would you let your 4yo choose whether to be vaccinated?

There's a huge gap between blind obedience and needing to be wrestled to the ground to take a vaccine. Most 14 year olds have the maturity and trust in their parents to understand that if their parents are telling them to have a vaccine, they should have it, even if they don't fully understand why they
need it.

Bodily autonomy applies to things like if they want a cuddle or like to be tickled, not essential medical or hygiene decisions. At 15, it's my/our job to tell SD she needs to brush her teeth if she's not doing it, to tell her to get her vaccines and to push her in the direction of the shower once in a while. Not to do so is neglect.

At 4? No. DS had his vaccines.

Now at 11? He refuses point blank, won't have the nasal flu vaccine, let alone a needle. He's autistic and prone to meltdowns. It's one of the many things that need addressing - along with washing, changing his clothes etc. But at he moment we're just pleased if he goes to school within half an hour of the start time and comes home happy rather than dysregulated and not ready to hit us, and it's taken a lot to get to this point, and we can't physically force him to have a vaccination.

Dear small child... Would you like someone to stick a needle in your arm that will hurt and make you sick for a few days? No? Okay then.

She is essentially hiding her anti-vax views behind false autonomy. Mine decided it was against their human rights for people to take or share photos of them without consent from about seven. This is something that they were able to rationally decide for themselves. The same child has every single vaccine going - they made their own decisions on the later ones because it was an informed choice. A small child is unlikely to make an informed choice. (I'm also sure if I'd told mine it would prevent them from getting really ill and possibly dying, they'd have had no issue even at four.) Mine was always horrified that Roald Dahl lost a child to measles.

@Marblesbackagain 👍 This is what I was thinking but didn't know how to say it. Totally agree. Children should feel they have choices about their own body especially teenagers. Otherwise it
can make them extremely vulnerable .

Blind obedience is what makes children very vulnerable to predators.

As a family who works with victims and a SA survivor I am very confident and reassured that my now 16 had the critical analysis skills to input and I have clearly stated input into any body autonomy decisions.

I worry for teens who are not allowed the same. If everyone thinks their child is a robot then fine but the given the unwelcome behaviour by many teens I think it naive .

No. Your 4 yo doesn't know the facts. You as parent are 100% responsible for making good decisions for dc.

Utterly ridiculous from this person!!!!

A 4 year old does not have the ability to make such a decision. It is the parents job to make such decisions on their behalf.

No, I wouldn’t. But - I signed my child up for the in school nasal vaccine when he was in reception, told him he was having it but when he went along to get it they asked him if it was ok and he said no so they didn’t give it 🙈 I got an email letting me know he hadn’t consented and had to take him to the doctor’s to have it done there instead. What a carry on.
I wouldn’t care but he’s not even the kind of child that has an issue with stuff like this, but he just decided on the day that he didn’t really fancy it and they’ve just said OK then! I’m all for consent but this is a bit far, why even ask if they’re ok with it? He’s autistic, the answer will be no. But he needs to understand that sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to do for our own safety.

@MrsSunshine2b and that's fine

However teens are hardly well known to be receptive to communication. We literally spend years in education inserting critical thinking skills!

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, not all children will just comply. I do agree with op that it shouldn't be presented as a choice but wonder how far most parents will be willing to go to force a young child to have a flu vaccine compared to some of the ones that are generally viewed as more critical.
This year I did go and restrain my daughter whilst she screamed through having it done. It wasn't a pleasant experience for either of us but not as bad as a stay in picu.

DSD is 15 and she doesn't have a choice. "You're having your flu vaccine on Thursday by the way."

But she's not fighting against that like some sort of tiny antivaxxer either, not because she necessarily wants the flu jab but because she assumes that if her parents are telling her that something is necessary, then it probably is.

When she's 16 she will ask parental advice as her first guide if she's asked to give her own consent to something.

Not normal. A child cannot decide this. Very poor parenting to ask children to make this sort of decision.

Well the reality is a 14 year old knows it a a choice they aren't in a vacuum. Stating that well I tell them and they do it is naive and disengenious to the teenager.

Teens need to be included in decisions, they need information and support. A 14 year old is two years off having control that isn't a binary thing not should it be sudden, it should be a gradual incremental process.

I am not saying a 4 year old should not have a vaccine. I am not an anti Vax.

I am advocating strongly that parents need to include teens who are nearing medical autonomy and work together. I don't know of anyone who sees dictating as a successful communication tool with teens.

No they can't.Any nurse would be in serious trouble and indeed would risk their registration. medical professionals are not allowed to unless in life threatening situations.

Unless my memory is serving me wrong, Gillick competence is only to consent to treatment and cannot be used to refuse treatment. The original case which established it was the contraceptive pill. So a child with antivax parents could insist on being vaccinated if it was felt that had the competence to understand the decision they were making, but could not refuse the vaccine if the parents had consented on their behalf.

Plenty of 14 year olds respect their parents and do as they are told without needing to be held down. If yours doesn't, perhaps that's something you should be resolving.

And presumably you’d have to go to court to prove that?
it’s more likely in this situation that the parents want it done and are just saying the child doesnt

medical Professionals can indeed manhandle a child. They aren’t likely to for the flu spray, but my daughter was indeed fighting against her preschool shots and a nurse restrained her!!
let’s face it though, the whole class will be having the spray, it’s only a little spray up their nose and if the parents don’t make a deal of it or give them the choice, the kids will all just go and get it done without a fuss because their friends are!

They can consent when they're deemed "Gillick competent" which can be younger than 16, but would never be as young as 4

My granddaughters, age 6 and 8,came out of school yesterday talking about it. They weren't happy about it but their Mum explained it just "a sniff" and one little sniff is better than being ill for a while. Ultimately, they agreed but if they hadn't, they would still have been having it.

However a medical professional will not manhandle a child. Hence the issue. If a child says no the medical professionals are stuck, unfortunately the op only seems to see things in black and white.

People give their children too much choice. Parents seem scared to actual parent !!
4 is too young to be making almost any decisions about anything … I mean most 4 year olds if given the choice would not attend school, would wear a Spider-Man or princess costume all day, eat chips and ice cream and never shower!
A 4 year old can’t understand the risks of having or not having a vaccine, or the risks of catching/passing on Flu to others….
My DD is 14 & this year I’ve let her decide whether to have it or not.

Children don't have capacity to consent to medical treatment until about age 16 IIRC from my days of studying law (many many years ago!)