Friend is so bitter!

I briefly felt jealous of a friend’s life too but I went to huge lengths never to let her get a whiff of it and also vowed not to give in to the feelings. I value her friendship too much. I also value my own self esteem too much. You can’t help feelings but you can choose how to respond. I hope your friend manages to get on top of it all.

That’s interesting because I don’t think I’ve ever known a woman who chose to be a lady of leisure and just let her husband keep her. A friend of mine did say her sister did, but I’ve never actually met the sister. I’m wondering if maybe you just known wealthier people than me, but it’s probably a lot more complicated than just that.

@ArtInTheMediumOfTurnip I think the problem is that most people are not happy for their spouse to not work. Eventually they get fed up of the situation and walk away, which is what has happened here.

If this woman really is in her late 40s and her eldest is 11, then she must have spent 15-20 years doing bugger all. She should deal with the consequences of that now, not her ex.

She has never worked, she met dh at university and they got married

I think people are being very harsh about the work situation for this poor woman. She is late 40s I think it was said?

Assuming she got married and her husband was happy for her to not work/raise the children/probably encouraged it because it suited him to have her take the load, she has a fair expectation that he would continue to support her.

OK you might argue that she should have right from the start assumed this day would come so started working and kept going but that's just not real is it.

This is why I think the criticism of her work situation is harsh:

The problem now is that she is not in the same position she would have been in had she started working as a university educated graduate. Say she had left university and qualified into a profession for example - an accountant or a lawyer or nurse or something - now approaching 50, she would be senior in her profession and her pay would be commensurate. She'd be worth £££ per hour or per year.

In any job, when you are young/starting out, you have to work really hard, get the shitty jobs, stay late at the office for low pay. As you become more senior in professions or many graduate jobs, although you may still work hard or have to stay late, the work becomes more interesting usually as it is more challenging. You get to drop the shitty little hard labour for no money jobs and do the higher paid more interesting jobs. Almost becoming like a consultant.

This woman has lost this opportunity. The work she could get now at her age is not going to be anywhere near commensurate with her age and lifestyle. She will be competing with enthusiastic young graduates as a career starter for low pay. That's hard enough when you are young and keen but are inpsired by seeing a career ladder in front of you and are driven by youthful ambition.

You may say 'well it's of her own making' but it isn't entirely is it? Because her husband has either wanted it or encouraged it or enabled it.

For anyone who has had any extended period away from work for illness or maternity leave or whatever, you know how hard it is to get back into it. For someone who has never worked who is facing taking a job likely way below their educational level and ability and age bracket, that is a tough thing to face. Who would want to do it? Add on top of that she is probably really depressed. It's very harsh to just be like 'get a job, lazy woman' because it is not the same position as working from the start.

What we don't know though is how easy the OP's friend is making it to see his children.

I've only ever come across this phenomena on Mumsnet.

Totally understand that your opinion is guided by your own experience. I have known a few women whose partners were domineering and didn’t want them to work. I’ve also seen a couple of cases on MN.

I absolutely agree with you that life is fragile and so unpredictable at times. My life unravelled hugely a decade ago after a head injury and post concussion syndrome, then I was injured by an off label antipsychotic prescribed for severe insomnia and anxiety after the head injury. I'm now living permanently with a neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia (like Parkinson's disease and Tourette's combined), which in many ways, totally changed and almost ruined my life.

To say this time was horrendous is an understatement. I'm in a new job now after 6 years of being a SAHM to my two youngest DC, but these health issues were extremely difficult to get over. I sympathise entirely with the OP's friend, whose life will have been completely turned upside down.

I think a bit of compassion is definitely needed but I understand how hard it must be, especially given she has been so horrid to you and your friends.

I’m not talking about them @DoreenonTill8

Your point being? It's 2024 and there's no good reason why people can't work. I agree equal pay is still an issue but that's not a reason to not work.

The equal pay act wasn’t until 1976 and is still being actively enforced ffs

Obviously no one expects him to stop working but the OP says that he was a good father before but is hardly seeing the children now because he is always going away with the OW. A decent man and father would prioritise his children over a new woman or other leisure activities when he did not have to work.

Maybe but the odds of this happening compared to the odds that someone who thinks "ooh, rich man, I don't have to work" are not good. I've never known the former. If I had £1 for every time I've met the latter I'd be a millionnaire.

I have no problem believing that it’s him that stopped her working. He wouldn’t be the first man to fall for an intelligent independent woman, push her into. Subservient role, lose respect for her, and then move on to another independent intelligent woman. No doubt blaming the first woman for what he did to her.

She’s obviously not ready yet, but the the sooner she realises that the best revenge is a life well lived the better.

She's welcome to have all that good fortune but I for one am glad that nowadays the expectation is that after divorce both parties have to work. Pre-Wright vs Wright it wasn't right that some people were getting away with not working and living off someone they were estranged from.

I imagine it's pretty scary to get a job for the first time in what must be her 30s or even 40s but at the same time it will probably become the less scary option as the alternative will be barely any money to live on.

That's a bit disingenuous don't you think? The majority of critical posts come from the venomous bile and aggression she directs at people who are helping her and basically her nasty behaviour or do you think that's ok because she's a woman and that's all that matters?

I feel awful for her.

Lots of “I would feel sorry for her, but she’s never worked”.

How disgraceful to “only be a mother who raises babies, gardens and bakes cakes”. Or to meet a nice man at University and become a SAHM.

Capitalism has got women turning against each other.

Def, I meant is there a real reason, why she can’t get a job?

I think she would be better off without a man for a while. She's never had a job since leaving university and I think she needs a chance to put her big girl pants on and become an independent woman.

Yes, you've quoted this at me once before and my response is still the same. I think it is more likely than not that the OP's friend is lying. Feel free to read why in my other posts because I've already explained why four times.

To be honest, there but for the grace of god go any of us. I’m not sure characterising her as a spiteful workshy drunk is super helpful. I wonder if people are uncomfortable acknowledging the level of good fortune all our lives are precariously based on and so it’s easier to paint her the outlier.

@Cornishcockleshells at this stage how are the children coping with a mother in this state.

It’s not so much about him or a set time but the scale of change. I’m sure once she has got her own house/job/partner she won’t be so enmeshed in his life choices. But at the moment they are very much enmeshed.

Of course hearing all this while looking for a new home and re-entering the job market will throw her. Plus there’s plenty of resources on mediation sites or Relate that talk about the first few years (and the ‘first’ Christmas/birthday/new partner) as being unsettled.

Oh gosh, that’s such a hard blow for her. x2. I suspect she will unravel further as you said. How gutting. I’m not sure what to suggest to you anymore. This will be hard for her to recover from. Please point her toward mental health services if you are concerned.