Friend is so bitter!

She is NOT a child! It’s not about allowing her to do and say what she likes because she’s hurting. She’s an adult and things happen and we all have to get on with it. Her actions are now directly impacting her friends and they are entitled to “make it about how they feel” . She’s an adult and she doesn’t have a free pass to behave any way she likes and to deliberately hurt other people because she’s hurt. If it was a child, your approach would be perfectly valid, they cannot control or often understand their emotions but as an adult she absolutely can. She is obviously devastated but at the end of the day she’s lost, what sounds like a controlling idiot. No one died! Grow up and be good to the great friends you have around you. Many people would have left her by now!

She is in crisis. She has lived a pampered secure life, now she has suddenly had everything she has taken for granted taken away. She is angry, bitter, bereaved, scared, lonely, depressed, jealous and mistrustful. She may be being so vile and pushing friends away subconsciously to see who else will ditch her. Effectively taking control by being the instigator of others leaving her. It's self-destructive, she is basically isolating herself and as her friendship group gets smaller and smaller to those who are equally bitter, and ultimately on her own, she will spend more and more time lost in her head self-analysing and hating herself and everyone around her. She needs something else to obsess about that takes her out of this hole she's digging for her self. Very sorry for her and for you. Best of luck....

I'd be a bit worried that she will get much worse for a bit as she processes this news, OP. Please brace yourself for same.

I just think that overlooks what some of these women bring to the relationship. Ability to make money is a feminist issue. Men will often have extremely well paid jobs. I worked for a corporate bank and knew guys on mega huge salaries - a stay at home wife was expected. Stuck out in the country in a mansion, raising his kids, doing charity work, organising everything... it is hard to see how, when he gets a younger model (and most of them got younger models) they should be expected to drop their entire standard of living, just because they weren't earning. Even if they had a good job like a teacher it pays a pittance compared with their husband's.

It is these marriages I'm thinking of. And I got the impression that was what we have here. Master of the universe types discarding wives and leaving them to it. OP treated this woman to a spa day so I'm assuming they are part of a set with plenty of dosh.

Agreed. Surely, if you have never worked (despite being intelligent, fit, healthy and - I assume - without a significant disability), you must realise how precarious your lifestyle and happiness are if they are wholly dependent upon your husband? Did it never occur to her that this might happen?

You are going to have to tell her before she blows the rest ofvwhats left of her life up. I have been in her situation, it hurts like hell, it's frightening and lonely. I used to look at my friends and think why me? She will calm down but the friendship might not last it might be to painfull for her. Unlike her I thought things rather than saying them. I still feel she'll shocked years later,it's like death.

I agree with you if the scenario you describe is accurate. Where I am more skeptical is how often it's actually true in the 21st century because it is quite an old fashioned set up now. I've worked with a few women who wanted it but I've never met a man my age or younger who was keen to support it.

I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the kind of divorce settlements that have resulted too and felt they should be capped to a reasonable level. For example, I remember early in my career seeing this case where my firm represented the wife who was in her late 40s. When she married at age 24 she worked on a supermarket checkout and she had no O-Levels. She married some guy who had some well paid job, I think it might have been an accountant or something. Anyway, she walked away with 70% of the joint assets and 40% of his income for life. By that time 40% of his income was the equivalent of what 3 checkout assistants were earning and it just felt a bit wrong to me. I think people should be, at most, put back in a position they would have been in were it not for the marriage.

I suspect that people start out with what what works for both of them but then things change further down the line. But for me a man who wanted a stay at home wife then dumps her for a younger model and leaves his wife in a precarious financial position is all too familiar (not me, but it has happened to several women I know). And tbh it is the alpha men who demanded a compliant wife, and who got one, who are most likely to behave like this. My sister in law is a case in point!

You don't know if the work is overlooked or not, because for the same reasons as you give you don't really know how much work she actually did.

I do strongly believe however that everyone has to take personal responsibility and that people should be educated from a young age that giving up work is an individual choice and a risk that they take. I do think perhaps that there might be a caveat where a nuptial agreement evidences that both of the couple have agreed one person doesn't have to work but I do think that evidence should exist before we presume the working party was happy with the arrangement. It's not the law now but I think it should be because it will focus minds at the beginning of that arrangement.

What makes me very uncomfortable is that I strongly suspect most people who end up losing more than half the assets or paying maintenance to the other spouse never consented to being the sole earner. I think a grave injustice is being played out in many a divorce like this.

Did she apologise to you?

very late to the party on this, but have you talked to her about menopause? Mood changes are a sign of perimenopause and HRT might help

@Cornishcockleshells I went through this with a friend.

In the end she got so nasty that I just blurted everything out about her horrible treatment of me.

I thought I'd killed the friendship. But by that point I had made peace with it.

She came back a time later and we spoke more calmly. I apologised for how I handled it, but that I didn't apologise for the reasons/content. It needed to be said.

We are still friends and she seems to have snapped out of her victimhood.

I think it's more complicated than that. You are projecting your ideas about work ontovthis woman / all women. Different cultures and even classes in the UK have different ideas about women working. And yes this leaves those women financially vulnerable when it all goes wrong. Trying to start a career in your late 40s is always going to be tricky. The value of the work she did within the marriage is overlooked. He built a career, a pension. The whole "surrendered wife" movement is back, particularly in America, partly driven by dominant men who are buying the Andrew Tate line about how to treat women and how women should behave. And it's awful. But I think we should have compassion for the women who have fallen into these traps, for whatever reason, and not talk about them in derogatory terms eg "meal ticket".

There's a big difference between 'not getting thanks in return' and getting insults and hurtful remarks.

I know that one of the stages of grief is anger, but normally that anger is directed at the people who have caused the situation. In this case, that would be her DH and the OW, not her supportive friends.

It has been 18 months since he left. Although she has been thrown into fresh turmoil due to the marriage to the OW and her pregnancy, her spiteful remarks to her friends who have done nothing but try and support her, pre-dated this new bombshell.

She obviously has a charmed life before any of this happened and has no reserves of resiliance to help her but her behaviour has still been dreadful.

Well no actually. I'm just someone who does housework and knows it isn't a full time job. Especially not before children.

I don't think a good therapist would accept that kind of client booking?

I've just seen the update. You poor friend.
My heart aches for her.

However, weirdly this might be the turning point in her behaviour too. If she's been holding on to the idea that they might get back together then this is the end of that fantasy. Her new reality is hard but she has to face it now. She might be more accepting of suggestions that she has counselling. She must know now that something has to change for her to find a future in which she can be happy.

Her children may be excited about being bridesmaids now but the older they get the less they will want to do with their father when they understand what happened. As adults, when they have their own children, they will have moments of extreme realisation. She will always be their number one. Remind her of that.

OP you sound like a lovely friend. Being less available is best all round. This bitter stage can last years.
Although finding out her DH is now having a child with OW and marrying her is a big blow, in a way it's a good thing, like closure. She now knows for certain that it's over and should start rebuilding her life. I think it's worse to live in limbo and waiting for him because she thinks he's coming back.
If she is good at art and gardening, maybe there is a job she can do that is enjoyable?

Wow, you took that a bit to heart didn’t you. Where did that outburst come from.

I get that. But understanding why she is behaving this way is part of learning how to “manage the friendship”. About not making her actions about you and how you feel but remembering that they are about how she feels.
Basicslly, either stick with her and ignore it all until hopefsullt she comes back around to being herself, or come to terms with the fact that the emotions and behaviours are too much for you to deal with and that means the friendship has run its course for now, break ties and you never know, you may reconcile years later when things change again- or not.

@AnnieCookWriter wonderful post! great advice

Great post @AnnieCookWriter

I feel you have done all you can with the gentle approach. You and your friends have been nothing but kind and compassionate. But all too often, in this kind of process, the tables get turned and kind people start to be taken for granted. It is time for some ''tough love' now, which is a phrase I actually hate, but will do here. It is time for the friends who are being taken for granted to start calling her out on her behaviour. The breakup of a marriage is desperately traumatic and hard, and it is natural for her to feel resentful of all who still have what she has lost. But you are not her punching bag, and your kindness and tolerance have limits.

It's appropriate to tell her that, and to point out that her behaviour is not acceptable, and needs to change, and unless it does you can't be there for her in the same way you have been. It's just not fair to you, and she needs to see that.

At some point in our lives, we all have to start picking up the pieces and moving on. She needs to start doing that in at least a small way, and if she won't get counselling there is little you can do. You'll have to leave her to it, at least for a while.

A lot of people have said to me (in my work as a psychologist) that friends deserted them unexpectedly in tough times. One of the things I always try to get them to appreciate is whether that was just unpleasant fairweather friend behaviour, or whether their OWN behaviour forced people to withdraw. It's more common than people think, to alienate people when your needs are so complex after trauma. This is what she is doing and she clearly doesn't understand. She needs to

The other thing you need to be aware of and prepared for is the fact that because her life has changed and yours hasn't, you may end up losing the friendship. That is something that often happens, because when someone's life changes, so do their goals, needs, desires and focus. That often means their values no longer align with those of the people they used to feel comfortable around. While you value this friendship, as she goes through the process of healing and recovery, she may be a different person at the end of that, and either one of you may feel it's run it's course. That's very sad if it happens, but it's normal.

She may also be Peri menopausal which might be messing with her hormones in ways that also make her feel bewildered or angry. There could be a lot more going on than she is even aware of herself. You can understand as best you can, if she will tell you, but it's not okay for her to throw your kindness and support back in your face. It is hurtful and unfair, and she needs to know that. Nobody can change their poor behaviour if they're not aware it needs to change.

I write novels about this sort of thing, and I've also recently done a podcast on my YouTube channel about friendship dynamics. You may find that interesting. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQKCJQQtxlNFz-AGR3EmQIK9TqESs1yOo&si=uscCvLxbYGbwm85S

Women go through tough times and we can be of enormous help and support to one another, but there have to be some boundaries around that, for the sake of sanity and fairness to all, and your friend needs to know what they are. 🧡

@Stickinthemuddle , I don't think you have to have a PGCE any more.

@BonneMaman77 , How about staging an intervention? Take her to a therapist? Don’t tell her until you’re there and let her know she needs it or that you need it as you try and support her?
That would not be a good idea.

I think the OP can make this thread about whatever she wants!

OP is not after thanks or gratitude! Just wishing someone would stop making nasty personal
comments is a fairly low bar in terms of expectation. Of course friend is devastated. But all the emotions you describe don’t give her licence to verbally abuse her friends. This situation is not solely about the friend and her feelings (which are raw and valid), but also the knock on effect and how to manage that. OP sounds very kind and patient. I’m not sure a lecture on how she needs to stop making things about her is warranted.