Friend is so bitter!

The thread captures such a rich variety of reactions from people of different generations and backgrounds. It's heartwarming yet a bit bittersweet to see everyone reflecting on their own experiences. Many of us have journeyed through different social classes—like me, having grown up in a working-class sink estate and then attending a private school. Interestingly, I only met one mother who had never worked, even among my friends from second-generation Asian families.

It’s concerning to think about how many women might be vulnerable in today's world. Yet, I’ve always known women to be fully capable adults. My grandma grew up at a time when women weren’t treated as equals, and she raised my mom. It's fascinating to see how two generations of women have shaped their lives so differently and how that influences how they raise their daughters.

I can’t help but wonder how many mothers here talk to their daughters about important topics like pensions and income. I truly hope that no one is encouraging their daughters to simply serve their partners! It really is a funny old world, isn’t it?

Oh was that a joke?

Like I said, I think it's a generational issue. My mum didn't work either. Now me and my sisters all do. Things have changed and they started changing before the OP's friend graduated too.

No they DONT omg this NEVER happens in investment banking! Omg no ypur watching to many soaps, it would be social suicide 😂😂traders yes. Thats so funny

I agree @NonPlayerCharacter and feel a bit uncomfortable with the turn this thread has taken. All sorts of judgements about this friend and whether or not she was happy not working and a bit smug about it or whether she would like to have worked but was bullied not to. It started off well meaning enough, with people speculating (rightly or wrongly) that perhaps she has always felt a bit superior to her friends and it being a high place to have fallen from (perhaps explaining her extreme behaviour). But it seems to have derailed and now we’re speculating as to whether intelligent strong women would allow themselves to be bullied into submission (of course this happens a lot! I can’t believe anyone would think it wouldn’t). Or whether some women love living off their poor hardworking husbands and almost deserve what’s coming to them…. It’s an uncomfortable space and perhaps not the point of this thread….

Doctors may marry doctors but investment bankers often marry beautiful women without careers. Anyway, when my girls were younger, hardly any of the mums worked. They couldn't afford childcare and they wanted to look after their own children. State school. Now, this was in the days when you could get by on one salary if that salary was pretty decent. By secondary school most were back at work but often in a low paid field, often part time. Clearly those whose husband's left them were then well and truly stuck. This is an issue that affects a lot of women, as many women give up earning capacity to benefit the family, and it isn't OK imo to see them as parasitic or sth because they need financial support.

@Winterwillow24

Come off it, if she’d been an intelligent independent woman she wouldn’t have been bullied into changing.

Do people still believe this?

Regardless of whether or not it's true in this case, do people still believe that only stupid, weak women get abused and controlled?

I posted way back and have only just caught up with the thread @Cornishcockleshells - obviously there have been some developments meanwhile.

I really feel for your friend and think some of the advice has been quite heartless, but I also feel - especially in light of recent events - that she needs to accept this is a watershed moment now. They're not going to get back together, life as she once knew it has changed forever, and what happens next is down to her.

Your original dilemma was how you yourself should react to her and I think you can use this new reality to drive home some key insights, namely that this is her life - her one precious life - and she needs to take control of it now or she will wake up one morning and find she's ruined yet another decade all by herself, on top of however many years she feels he ruined for her. She needs to get into therapy. She needs some kind of job, so that she (a) has a reason to get up and get out some/most days and (b) is getting some experience of the workplace, which must be very daunting after all these years - paid is best, voluntary is fine if she's truly unskilled or totally overwhelmed. And she needs to get off the booze, at least until she's on more of an even keel, and maybe totally and permanently if she's actually an alcoholic.

All of this is not nothing and I think she's got a tough time ahead, but she needs to make a start. The alternative is unravelling on the floor, alienating her kids and losing the last of her friends. You've been a good friend to her up to now and I hope she appreciates that eventually.

Exactly this. The wealthy might have wanted this for their daughters in the 1950s but I doubt there are many people who still want this for themselves or their children now.

Not sure it’s an outburst. More that you sounded a bit lecturey and I felt it was unjustified. OP is doing more than enough.

Enjoy your weekend away Op- you do deserve it.

Your friend’s pain is terrible for her to bear but she is very lucky to have had you all standing by her despite her behaviour.

On your return-perhaps hold back on the expensive treats and events it is hard to end quickly. See her and be supportive but leave easily when the drinking/bitterness start to spill.

(All the lovely spa trips and meals out might even suggest the life of luxury you all have and she is missing - adding flames to her fire!)

Going forward:
Listen to her but don’t give advice or make suggestions or try to solve her problems. (That just allows her to be negative and almost makes you responsible for finding a way out.) Ask her questions about her thoughts and feelings and ideas. Let her talk out everything and come to her own decisions.

Tell her when she has hurt others - in a matter of fact-what are you planning to do to make it up -sort of way.

She is still in there somewhere.

Come off it, if she’d been an intelligent independent woman she wouldn’t have been bullied into changing. The op says she was the laid back bohemian type who had never worked. It sounds like she was happy not to work and now doesn’t know what to do.

It sounds like your friend is so completely overwhelmed by her own feelings that she's lost the capacity to empathize or consider other's feelings.

Neurologically, she has probably gone into 'fight or flight ' and her amygdala is calling the shots - which means her prefrontal cortex is less able to regulate her emotions, feel empathy, think rationally, or make good decisions.

None of that is to say that you have to suffer in silence, however.

A useful method when trying to advocate for yourself with someone who easily feels attacked, is to use the phrases 'when you. .I feel '. (Eg. When you say, I don't know how your husband puts up with you, I feel hurt.)

She's entitled to her feelings but you are also entitled to yours

(Disclaimer: I am not neurotypical, so I tend to prefer compassionate honesty over other methods of communication. It doesn't suit everyone).

Having read so many heartbreaking threads on here over the years where mothers who work and their children are abandoned by the husbands, are on the bones of their ass financially and reach out here for advice which is willingly given. I struggle to sympathise with this woman who has had a charmed life until 18 months ago. And she still hasn't got her shit together, but abuses her friendships.

You can only play a victim for so long imo.

Tbf a lot of these women started out working. But others didn't or had little jobs. Think Diana and Prince Charles!

Ive only known high earning men to marry high earning women. Or more rarely they met in childhood. Its like hearing about another planet. I never met at private school, mothers who were mis matched from their husband. Dr friends is the mpst segregated. All drs i know married other drs. Late millenial here! I always wondered how do these women raise their daughters and sons, do you focus the girls on finding a huband only... and your sons on finding work. What is the benefit of a sahm who has no ability to live or move through the world, who has no ability to live without her husband.

I read the posters responce as measured. There is a way disengenous people try a deflect, it is referring to tone rather then content, it is sly.

Exactly, cannot believe there's posters on the thread encouraging the OP to continue being a verbal punch bag!

Well that should be their choice and their risk but we're taking about incomes that would put you in the top 0.1% of earners now so it's hardly commonplace enough to be a widespread issue for society anyway.

No, notcreally. If your husband earns a couple of million pa I doubt you keep working and use a nanny. At private schools lots of the mums don't work.

OP, your friend is in 'crisis' and you need to respond to her like that, with gentle firm support to direct her to get counselling and see the GP. Nothing you do will really help her much at this point, I wouldn't abandon her but I would just calmly call out any bad behaviour or drunken nastiness.

I would also get this thread deleted as it's very identifiable and someone may recognise her and give her the heads up. You have had great advice, I'd take it and get it deleted.

Even with the update OP, you and your friends can still hold firm boundaries gently with her.

"No Sophie, I know you're upset but you can't talk about other people's weight like that."

"I get that you're angry and I'm here for you, but not as a punching bag. Please stop being mean to me."

It's not exactly a common set up now though is it? Maybe it's a generational issue?

I suspect most corporate bankers nowadays are more likely to be found married to someone else with a career of their own and using a nursery or a nanny for the children.

Firstly thank you for being such a good friend, which i realise takes a lot of patience. Are you the closest to her out of your group?
I also like a previous poster ,went through much worse when i was widowed, i hated seeing couples around me walking holding hands, making plans to go on holiday, but after a few years i gave myself a good talking too, it still creeps back occasionally i can name it jealously!
None of my original friends are around me now, im a totally different person, i sometimes dont like this new self i often crave the extrovert, fun loving person i was back then, now im the total opposite, introvert, over thinker quiet.
Your friend is hurt, angry, jealous, of the life she now hasn't got.
The best thing you,( or the closest one of you) on a one too one basis can do now for her and her children is have a good kind honest frank chat,( if you step back/walk away you may send her down a black hole with alcohol drugs who knows but its not good for her or her children, an acquaintance of mine did this) no blame, you feel you want to help her move forward, how can you help her? wait for her to reply, she will probably go down i want him back i hate my life ect, yes you know that but this is now, so how can you move forward rinse and repeat same, not in a public space either, just have coffee no alcohol, you want to help her put a plan together, if she gets angry thats fine just keep your calm, maybe she just needs someone to bring all the hurt and anger out, its not directed at you but at herself.
Perhaps start with lets do no alcohol till Christmas, maybe meet at the gym instead of the pub once a week or something, let her take her anger out on the treadmill, or yoga or simply walking in the fresh air, then maybe ask if you can help put a plan with finances, (not sure how close you are) then put her in touch with someone who specialises in CVs, telephone number of a counsellor, one step at a time, all the time saying you want to help her.
She eventually will move on, but will always remember you.
Good luck.