Friend is so bitter!

Too stunned every single time??

this is quite worrying! you shouldn't be scared of a friend. If a different acquaintance said to you that they were scared of saying something even the tiniest bit negative to their partner/sibling/parent surely that would raise red flags and you would be worried about them. She's taking her anger out on the wrong people.

It's very understandable your friend is upset but lives do change. She was lucky to have a great life for a while but nobody lives in a perfect bubble forever. She has to accept this is her 'new normal' and she can live her new life with her (very supportive friends) or lose them as well. At some bad point things are going to happen to other people within your group - parents dying, relationship break downs, job loss, cancer, issues with kids, because that's just life - it can't just be about her forever more.

tbh I'm less convinced about what a lovely person she usually is. It's very easy to be calm and kind and bohemian when your life is perfect, lovely relationship, great friends, lots of money, you've never even had to work and everything has been handed to you on a plate, it's when things go wrong that people show you what they really are like. This might be her real (or at least her new) personality now, and you've got no obligation to stick around and be her whipping boy forever just because you used to be friends.

She is directing her anger at the wrong people. As other PP’s have said, I’d have a couple of stock responses to say when she says things like that, particularly “that’s not very nice”, “please don’t talk to me like that”. It’s her choice then if she continues like this and alienates herself.

18 months?

You've got more patience than I have, OP.

She is directing her anger at the wrong people. As other PP’s have said, I’d have a couple of stock responses to say when she says things like that, particularly “that’s not very nice”, “please don’t talk to me like that”. It’s her choice then if she continues like this and alienates herself.

Could you and the other friend(s) talk to her together and try to say gently that you’re worried about her and would she rather you both/all withdrew from her life for a while as being with you seems to make her so unhappy?

It's time to distance yourself and/or respond to her comments as you know you should, rather than staying quiet. You need to call her out.

Has she really changed or is it her true self coming out, that you might have seen glimpses of? Did she perhaps always think she had a fantastic life because she was amazing and deserved it, and didn't acknowledge any luck?

So it does all sound tricky and I imagine I’d feel the same as you and would probably need to distance myself.
But one perspective to consider do you think some of the mean thoughtless comments by her may actually not be thoughtless at all but rather her response to actually thoughtless condescending behaviour and comments by others? Obviously not on purpose but it does read like you know what a lovely fab life you have and pity her for her shitty life and not being married to someone better. Likely not remotely your thought process but I can see how that may be how you all make her feel? Like you think she wasn’t smart enough to pick someone who didn’t cheat, did or didn’t do sth to make him cheat etc. If eg fat comment friend had something that could be interpreted in that way that completely makes sense of the mean comment…

The fat friend comment is awful but I'm guessing it fascinates her that someone can be less than perfect and still be loved. In a perverse kind of way it's an encouraging sign that she's looking at the relationships around her and wondering what makes them qualitatively different from her marriage, because that means that she's accepting that it was always a less than perfect marriage and life, she just couldn't see it at the time. In other words, she's starting to be ready for self-reflection, it's just that she's done so very little of it in the past that it comes out in the form of crass and unpleasant remarks. She needs to apologise for that, and as I said upthread, get herself into therapy where she can say whatever she wants without hurting anyone.

Are all your circle sahm with husbands? And one of you suggested (gently im sure) for her to retrain and get a job?

Oh dear.

Oh dear, so she’s probably scared hence why she took it out on your other friends. On the plus side she has a degree presumably, so that’s a starting point. Only she can make that move into training or a job of some kind though. She probably didn’t realise that her friends were looking out for her😊

This kind of madness is the result of subsuming yourself 100% into another person. Always keep a bit of yourself for your own life. My mil is still bitter thirty five years on and alone because of it.

@Cornishcockleshells It is likely that your friend, when she eventually comes out the other side, will make friends that are more suited to her new life and remind her less of what she lost. So there is no point in enduring the unacceptable (which is how her behavious comes across) and martyring yourself, because she won't thank you, and she may not be there to support you should your own, different time of need arrive, as she may well have moved on and left you behind.

I think it’s time to be ready with some comments like, “Ouch!” (accompanied by a grimace) to communicate that this is really not ok.

And then, “Jeez Jane, you’re not going to have any friends left if you keep making comments like that!”

Or simply and sadly, “that wasn’t very nice.”

And then, “hey, that’s really uncalled for. It’s not Emma’s fault your husband had an affair.”

She needs to hear that she can’t keep treating people like that. It’s a type of kindness. I think it’s better to have some responses ready to react in the moment rather than try to have a conversation about it another time as she will probably be really defensive.

Severe depression can present a bit like dementia in some ways. The horrible comments may not be 'her' in the same way they aren't with someone with dementia. But it doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I agree with others - time for an honest conversation. Tell her she doesn't seem to be herself, and you and everyone who loves her know it will take time to get over something so important but you all want her to find herself again so she needs to start that process by having therapy. If it doesn't work and she gets angry and resistant all you can do is what a PP said and say you will have to take a step back as you feel like being around you is hurtful for her based on her comments. But tell her you'll be there for her if she needs you.

No wonder!
It's been a year and a half. Your friend needs professional help. How can she be so entitled and continue insulting people. I honestly hope someone gives her a reality check. Do hou think your friend is abusing alcohol?
I feel sorry for her child.

This^ is a very well thought out post and is spot on in my view @Cornishcockleshells

I would also add : You said your friend has never worked and has been with her ex since they were young. If her life has never thrown her any major curveballs she will be totally unable to comprehend that shit can and often does happen, to anyone. Worse still, she won't have any idea how to deal with it at all. You would be a good friend to have a talk with her. Yes, it might mean you lose a friend - but hopefully, sometime in the future she will realise it was coming from a place of love

I think most things have been covered already, and I say that as both a divorced person and a still (mostly quietly) bitter widow.

One thing to bear in mind is that anger and lashing out is a symptom of fear, and sometimes no amount of reassurance can easily help with that. Also a pp mentioned self-loathing - that resonates in that spectacularly awful life changing experiences can make one feel a bit like Typhoid Mary, or Jonah, no matter how lovely people are because nothing feels lovely any more. It can also make one so determined that more bad things will happen you almost try to engineer them because at least then you're in control.

That said, cruel comments are out of order so I feel for the OP.

Apparently there are places you can go to smash crockery and throw axes at targets. Without wishing to sound flippant, might that be an option that would be a subtle hint but also potentially an outlet? I'm actually considering it for myself so I can release the build ups of sheer rage I feel about the death of my DP and the three years of relentless shit that has followed. Because it's the domino effect of the first awful thing and the fallout that make it harder to move on if nothing goes to plan. Just a thought.

I agree that the kindest thing to do is to tell her.

Otherwise you're standing by while she loses her friends - then she really will have lost everything.

You could literally put it like that.

I absolutely hate confrontation and my sister can be very, very hard work, with general self absorption and snide little comments and criticisms. One day she said something and I just snapped, I said “hey, that’s enough”. She instantly knew what she’d done and apologised and is more measured now.

I think you sound like a lovely friend but she’s going to carry on until someone tells her enough or she has no friends left. You obviously need to be willing to risk the friendship but it might be the wake up call she needs. Tell her you are and have been sympathetic but she is behaving awfully and hurting people (probably subconsciously her aim, for people to hurt as badly as she does) amd it’s got to stop. Be kind but firm, if you are too namby pamby about it you are likely to just get another outpouring of poor me and bitterness and you’ll be back at square one. You have given enough sympathy and apologising for living, time for some tough love.

Well maybe she was able to be a certain kind of person before because she had a charmed existence by the sound of it. Now that the shit has hit the fan, maybe this IS the real her, or at least an aspect of her character that was previously hidden. Either way, none of you have to be her punching bags, sounds like she is so far out of line now that she's lucky if she ends up with any friends.

I think you are right about finding a way to gently speak with her about how some of the things she has been saying are upsetting people who care about her. If you say nothing and everyone just drifts away from her it could become a narrative in her mind that none of her friends have stuck around because she is single now and her finances have changed, can't be trusted around husbands etc and blame you all, rather than understanding that it's her behaviour causing the problem. At least honesty gives her an opportunity to change her ways and appreciating the real reason might also bring home to her the impact of taking her emotions out on others rather than seeking professional help.

There is someone in my life who is in a similar position. I love and care for them very much so I'm sticking with them, but it's hard!

Don't underestimate the huge trauma of a break up. In the case of my family member, I'm genuinely shocked at the number of people who have expected them to just "get over it", "move on", when they have spent their life with the person who has gone - it's a grief process. As with any grief, there is no timetable or schedule. And when you are consumed in grief, you see everything darkly and negatively. It's like the opposite of rose-tinted glasses! Everything is dark and heavy. Counselling will help your friend but she has to feel ready for it - sometimes it's just too soon to benefit from that.

You sound like a wonderful caring and supportive friend, but everyone has their tolerance limits. Decide what you can offer and stick to your boundaries.

For me, I'm letting the big things go and continuing to support, but pulling up on the little things. So in your case that would be - commenting that my life is perfect, ignore, to her your life probably does seem perfect and she won't see otherwise. Didn't thank you for a spa day, ignore, you did good by taking her there, she may not have enjoyed it at the time but in future she'll remember you were there by her side. Commenting that your sweater isn't nice - immediate reply "that's not kind, no need to be rude".

Tbh I can see why you would want to pull away but I feel like realistically you need to be there for her more than ever. People need people the most when they are becoming so bitter and sad. It’s hard to love someone so difficult but it’s truely what she needs (and some therapy)

It's interesting that she won't countenance therapy or counselling, because she sounds absolutely overflowing with anger, which is a frightening thing to navigate without professional support. I wonder if she's scared at an instinctive level that if she starts letting it all out she may not be able to stop.

There's a lot to process here. Never having worked is huge. She will need to rethink that to survive, which means she needs to revisit choices and face either the fact that they were poor ones or (perhaps) the fact that they were not freely made. If her ex made it directly or indirectly clear that he wanted her at home being the family support animal, it must feel bitterly unfair now to be cast aside for a more interesting model. And if that was a devil's pact she entered into knowingly for the lifestyle, she not only needs to recalibrate the lifestyle, but also needs to rethink the person she had to become to make it work. That pact is gone and so is the women who was in a position to make it. She must feel the ground has disappeared beneath her feet. Plus there may well be childhood issues feeding into the choices she made and the life she was leading, which all of this will be reigniting. Plus the vast task of getting herself into a position to support herself going forward, which must be completely terrifying as well as being objectively difficult.

You sound like you've been a great friend to her, but this is a job for a professional. I also think that gestures like spa days and nice lunches are somewhat misplaced, when that life is largely over for her for now. What she needs is to talk and get all her ugliest feelings out into the world, and then support to rebuild once she's faced up to the fact that most of her life is currently wreckage that needs clearing away.

Her intense anger at the unfairness and unwelcomeness of it all is a phase that will pass, but in order for it to pass, she needs to accept facts and work her way through them like a grown-up, which is probably not at all something she feels capable of being at the moment. I think I would say that your job at the moment is to encourage her to accept that and get into therapy, and to listen to whatever comes out of that for her, as she needs to talk and get things out to process them. That doesn't mean it's OK for her to be hateful, and reminding her that you are her friends and not a suitable target for her anger is okay and in fact good for her to hear. Longer term, you could help her by challenging and supporting her to do all the things she's scared of - retraining, working, making a new home somewhere she feels negative about etc. She will really need her friends to get through all of that.

But ultimately, the one who needs to do the heavy lifting is her. You can't do it for her and if she continues to refuse to take responsibility for herself, then probably the friendship can't survive. A year and a half is enough time for angry wallowing. She needs to roll up her sleeves now.