Friend is so bitter!

So he wouldn't let her work but left her for someone he met at work. Wonder if she is giving up her job to pander to his needs.( Not the point of the thread!)

My BFF's husband suddenly died at 38, leaving her with 2 under 5s in August.

She's managed not to call any of her friend's fat or say she feels sorry for our husbands, and she'll be back at work long before 18 months is up.

Yep, your friend's DH has treated her badly and she's had a knock to the ego. It's about time she picked herself up and stopped blaming everyone else for her problems.

This is why anger is one of the deadly sins. It damages not only the people who are the butt of the cruelty and gracelessness, but it is corrosive to the ‘sinner’. It is even worse for them, because you and the other friends can and will heal from the hurt or embarrassment the angry person causes, but they will just step deeper into the fiery pit of their own resentment and rage.

I am on the side of those who have advised you to confront the angry behaviour, quite possibly by letter ( although you have no means of knowing how much will be read). I don’t think you have much to lose from this course of action. Including your friend in the gatherings and events in which she participated in ‘happier times’ may be rubbing salt into the wound by reminding her of what she will see as her ‘loss’.

Maybe, just maybe, a serious conversation about trying to work through her anger ( and the self medication she is using) could help her to move into the next phase of her life. Because she is going to have to take some positive steps, or she risks losing even more . If she is drunk around the children, she is putting them and her role in their life at risk, which would be even more devastating.

You are doing your best, OP. Permit me to say, you are a good friend for persevering, and I wish you and your friend calmer waters ahead.

Goodness. Not RTFT yet but she really doesn't sound like a very nice person. It's easy to be smiley and serene when you're wafting around enjoying your Bohemian lifestyle; it's when times are tough you see a person's true character. Yes allowances should be made for what she's going through but not to this extent, being spiteful and contemptuous is not because she's going through heartache but rather the stress of the situation is showing you what's beneath the surface.

I think the best thing you could do for her as a friend is be very honest with her the next time she makes any kind of unpleasant comment. Maybe it will be a wakeup call and in a few years time she will actually be a better person for it - if she goes out and tries to make the best of things rather than being resentful and self-pitying.

There is a saying that adversity doesn't build character but reveals it.

I think that in many cases this is true.

In my experience dealing with divorces as a day job, this is a very common root cause especially where the higher earner (normally the man but not always) has instigated the split. There might have been some agreement that one person will stay at home for a couple of years until nursery; then it's until the children start primary school and then it's normally when the stay at home spouse starts demanding that they don't have to get a job until secondary school that the higher earner normally snaps.

There's all kinds of reasons for this. Couples with such different roles to play often begin to grow apart; there's often a lot of financial pressure even where the person working is doing well in their job and resentment builds as the stay at home person thinks they "do it all" whilst the person working feels all the financial pressure and resents barely seeing their children until the weekend.

I'm not saying that people should never be SAHPs or that this arrangement could never work. However, both people need to be totally onboard with it and often the person working just isn't nowadays. Where there is reluctance then often they have been coerced into their "sole provider" role with lines like "well, childcare will cost more than I can earn" or "what about the school holidays?"

My advice to any SAHPs married to people who don't absolutely love their jobs and prefer the total freedom to excel in their careers rather than spend time with their children is to think very carefully about whether what they're doing is sustainable and fair on both people.

But OP is neither of the people to blame so why should she put up with being bullied or the punching bag for the friends anger especially when she has gone out of her way to be nice.

If you treat everyone like shit you end up alone, doesn't matter if someone else treat you like shit you don't get to pass it off as shit rolls on and just shit on others.

I suspect she does ultimately need a new friendship group.

This is not because OP is not being a good friend, but just the circumstances of her life have changed so dramatically that the old friendship group doesn't really fit anymore.

The men are all still maintaining their friendship with the STXH - so she can't go to any couples events anymore.
And the women now have a total different lifestyle to her as a single mum. So while inviting and paying for her to come on a spa day is a very generous thing to do, it is also a reminder that 18 months ago she wouldn't have needed paying for.

For her this friendship group has probably run it's course. She might stay in touch with one or two of the group separately but the days of coming to, and enjoying, large group events with everyone are done.

She does sound in a bad way. Is she so rude and unkind when she's sober or just when drunk? If so the vicious attacks maybe part of an alcohol addiction.
Whatever part the booze is playing, I think the kindness and most useful thing t would be to tell your friend seriously and calmly, at some point when she's sober and you're in a private place together, that she is being really unpleasant to her friends, including you, and it is making you very unhappy. No more than that - no suggestions or reassurances. If she asks for examples of her unpleasantness, have a few ready to give her, but don't offer them unless she asks.

I'd really strongly be encouraging her to do some sort of short course or training simply to give her an outlet for her mental energy.

Something to focus on and see she's good at. Her entire self worth was wrapped up in a man who has rejected her.

You know this isn't really true but she doesn't yet. The RHS do some courses if she is green fingered.

I have to admit that I'm also a bit cynical about the awful, controlling ex who forced her not to work. She literally never had a job, even for 15-20 years before having children following University? That's incredibly unusual and suggests someone who just doesn't want to work. Given that she's also making no effort to find a job or looking into training now, it does make you wonder if she has made this up so that her friends feel more sorry for her.
It's totally understandable that she is devastated by her DH leaving suddenly, anyone would be but it doesn't mean that you need to behave in a horrendous way to your friends who have been trying to support you. It is also 18 months down the line, not a few weeks or months. I wonder if she is behaving terribly to the DC too. Do you think she is drinking heavily or using drugs to account for this huge change in her behaviour? Whatever the case is, she needs to start helping herself; she can't expect never ending support from others while she makes none and behaves horribly.

A terrible thing had happened to her but that doesn’t mean she can behave how she wants & upset old friends.

I would go low contact & hope that she eventually snaps out of it.

Your friend is grieving and one of the stages of grief is anger. Her behaviour is normal for her situation, but that doesn't mean she gets to treat you and your other friends like dirt. This comment is co.pletely out of line. What did you/your friend say when she said this?

It's ok to call her on things that upset you.
It's ok to say "that's not very kind" or "what do you mean by that?" Or "are you trying to be hurtful?" Or "that's a low blow" or "I don't appreciate you speaking to me like that" or "that was rude"

She needs to be told that her comments are over the line before she loses the support she does have.

I know a couple of women in real life who will not work despite their DH no longer being onboard with them being a SAHM once the kids have started school. The DH of one eventually left her for someone at work.

Same. They seemed to think SAHM meant stay at home forever.

A lot of people just don't have much self awareness so she may not realise

She is obviously struggling so I wouldn't necessarily drop her but it's not okay for her to treat you poorly either. I would be honest eg "I thought I was doing something nice for you in taking the day off and organising a spa day for both of us but I feel like you've complained so much in not sure you appreciate it".

OR "I know this is really rubbish and difficult for you but try to remember we are your friends and we are trying to help. Sometimes it feels like you don't appreciate us" then leave her to sit in it until she realises and says sorry or tries harder

Another vote for YANBU, as one who has been through a shattering and unexpected divorce. It sounds like you’ve been great and supportive friends but this isn’t a free pass to treat people badly. It’s important to maintain your own boundaries too - they don’t have to be subsumed by her trauma; your needs are important as well.

I would look at it this way - if someone can gently and supportively tackle it with her, you’ll be doing her a favour as life will be much harder if she loses her friends (and she will if she carries on like this). My friends have been a lifeline in recent years.

She really, really ought to have counselling. I did because I couldn’t put everything on my friends and family - that simply wouldn’t have been fair. And it was a safe space for all that anger to come out, which it sounds like she needs.

Good luck, OP.

I also agree with @ssd regarding her needing new friends. Not to say you aren't being good friends but you are all very much reminding her of what she no longer has.

A friend of mine went through similar to your friend and she recently told me she had to stop seeing a lot of old friends as she just found it too painful at that time of her life. She needed friends who were in a similar situation - she also said that people telling her how strong she was and to get a job very tiresome especially when these women were not in her situation.

So, I would give her space. My friend is 5 years down the road and doing wonderfully well now.

Why wouldn’t we?

Maybe this IS her true self now, @Cornishcockleshells ? It's easy enough to be as nice as pie when it's all roses round the door, but perhaps she was ALWAYS thinking "how did fatty managed to snare HIM??" It's just she had a few filters. But now when her own life has taken something of a turn, she no longer has the energy to hide her "authentic" self.

She appears to have led a charmed life until her husband left. And now she has friends and family running round in circles trying to support and appease her. Most people don't get that. Their husbands leave, some pay maintenance, many don't and simply sail off into the sunset never to be seen again, leaving the woman to shoulder the burden themselves. They have to carry on without all their pals playing nursey to them and getting shit in response.

I think she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet now. Although I don't envy a middle-aged (?) person who's never worked trying to enter the job market for the first time.

That certainly doesn't sound like someone who was forced not to work. That sounds like someone who never wanted to be in employment and always wanted to stay at home with the children. That's now going to be taken away from her because she will have to get a job to mitigate her circumstances and that's why she's bitter.

The trouble is that you can say someone like this "tried hard" but in the 21st century there just aren't that many people who are happy to carry the entire financial load whilst the other gets the lion's share of time with the children. It's really old fashioned and it's not what husbands want to do anymore. It could well be the reason he found a colleague more interesting to be with. Sorry, I know it's harsh, but that tends to be the truth of it nowadays.

If you want to say anything let it be something like.

"we know you are hurting right now, but hurting us is not going to make things better for you. It will make it worse, we know you are testing us in way that you can no longer test your husband. He hurt you so badly that you may feel afraid to trust anyone and are pushing us away rather than being abandoned again. We love you but are not punching bags for your grief. Our mental health is important too. We need it in order to support you. All this will pass."

There is a lot to be said for her working there is not much else that gives you a sense of accomplishment and reward, but it will be a huge leap for her.

Some drunks can be very cruel and say things they don't mean (or other times, in vino veritas!)

Maybe her DH wasn’t on board with the ‘Earth mother’ stuff as the kids were in school. Maybe he wanted her to work.

I know a couple of women in real life who will not work despite their DH no longer being onboard with them being a SAHM once the kids have started school. The DH of one eventually left her for someone at work.

OP having seen someone in a similar position they turned to alcohol and it became her new bestie.
Is there a chance your friend could be an alcoholic? Because if she is, it could explain her behaviours.