Friend is so bitter!

This may be true, but it doesn't really have any relevance to a cryptic post about men and their money, or the men who do indeed come to MN purely to complain that it's not ManKind.

I think that's a bit harsh. I don't think you can really have a conversation about break ups - especially those with children - without considering both men and women 99% of the time. It's also just a fact of life that despite years of progress we still seem to find ourselves in a society where it's more socially acceptable for a woman to stay home with children than it is for a man and where women still tend to marry men who earn more than them than vice versa. Of course as a result, there can often appear to be very strong gender roles in divorce (breadwinner man and SAH woman) and people will feel strongly about that.

In reality, we're all equal under the law but we're not all equal in society and there are both men and women who aren't getting to live the lives that they want because of societal pressure. Discussing one without the other doesn't give a complete picture, in my humble opinion.

YANBU - BUT having once been in her shoes I can totally understand why she feels like she does. It is a phase that will pass, but in the meantime if I was you, just back away for a while so she can sort herself out. I can attest that counselling is close to useless for these situations. She might do better joining a support group for people going, or have gone through, a similar transition.

Bear in mind that it's not just her DH she has lost, she has also lost her previous lifestyle which is very hard to come to terms with. Also she has become a single parent against her will - this alone would be stressful.

Time will heal these wounds but it's a case of being patient.

I've read this three times and I still don't see what point you're trying to make. Is it something pertinent or is it just one of the standard posts where men trawl Mumsnet purely to complain that the mostly female userbase doesn't prioritise or centre them?

It's family money during the marriage but at the point of divorce it's normally a fair split and on you way nowadays. It's quite rare that either person can afford to not work because there just isn't enough money to go around. In the old days the higher earner who didn't have primary custody of the children might have ended up with significantly less than half of the assets and have to pay spousal maintenance on top of that but nowadays the court will take a good hard look at the extent to which a potential recipient of maintenance or more than half the assets can support themselves first.

No it's not. This level of bitterness is NOT normal. Stop trying to normalise shitty behaviour. Plenty of people experience pain and loss worse than hers and manage not to lash out at the people trying to support them.

Yes, for all the women who spend their husband's money. So it wasn't the man's money right

Trouble is it won't work out like that nowadays. Unless there's millions stashed away somewhere she'll get a settlement that still leaves her having to work so if she is as you suggest stuck in teenage mode then she'll be forced to grow up rather quickly. It's not like the old days; back when the MCA 1973 was written, as soon as a woman had a child judges thought she could never work again!

@Lincoln24

I just wanted to say how moving and insightful I found your post. Sorry for your loss. You obviously have a great strength of character.

I know someone like this married very young after getting pregnant, never had a job, had a beautiful home, as much money as she wanted. Husband left her. She got to keep the house, car, kids. Plenty of money still. He never saw them again, his choice.

She's now part of our extended family. It's the strangest thing and took me a few years to work out. She's stuck in teenage mode emotionally and mentally.

Her own daughter a wife and mother herself gets exasperated with trying to cope with this middle aged child.

It's time and experience of life it's ups and downs that she has missed out on. She may start dating again and that's interesting observing a middle aged woman dating like a giddy teenager.

So @Cornishcockleshells you may be dealing with this type of woman/child

I’m sure you haven’t because you seem very aware of your friends feelings but is there any chance you’ve unwittingly said things that would upset her? Like moaning about life stuff? It’s not the same situation but earlier this year I lost a very wanted and long tried for baby. My friend got pregnant with her second just before me and she’s due in a few weeks. there have been a few times she’s complained about being too tired and how hard the pregnancy has been (all incredibly valid things to moan about) but there have been times when I’ve thought…pick your audience. Again I’m not saying you have done this but I guess it’s worth a thought? (Also it doesn’t excuse her saying things - even when I’ve thought bitter things I’ve only voiced them to my husband!)

I do wonder if some part of her bitterness and anger may also be misdirected towards herself? If you say she married directly after Uni and never worked she's suddenly not only facing up to the end of her dream marriage, and becoming a single mum, but the realisation that she's going to struggle to find gainful employment and support herself moving forward. She surely needs support through counselling to get her through this, so she can move forward and help her DC, and more so if her friends haven't the lived experience to help her. Can you help her find a counsellor? It sounds like she doesn't have the resilience yet on her own as she sounds stuck and sadly won't find help she surely needs at the bottom of a bottle.

Sometimes the kindest thing you can possibly do is be honest.

It sounds like she's a close friend, and you care about her, so don't beat around the bush. Do her a favour, and reflect back to her how her behaviour will turn people against her. Tell her that if she continues to be unkind and bitter towards you, you'll have to step aside.

Did you pay for the spa day OP?

If you did this was absolutely awful behaviour from your friend.

I would not have a heart to heart at all. Next time she speaks to you that way you either pull her up or you pack up and tell her that was last time she spoke to you that way. She can contact you when she is willing to treat you kindly. And then go silent.

There's no point having a conversation. The problem is she has lost sight of her boundaries with you. Draw them back in. She needs a reminder of her role in a friendship, and it can not be support all one way.

You can still be her friend whilst setting strong boundaries around what behaviour you accept from her.

This is true but it's also why I would always recommend to a higher earner who is not happy with the situation and has lost respect for their spouse to bite the bullet as soon as possible. Be clear that they want the other spouse to work and if they don't, divorce when the other spouse is young enough to be expected to find work and become independent and cannot just rely on maintenance and a hefty chunk of the higher earner's pension.

Maybe, who knows. The bottom line is that her DH choosing to leave for someone else doesn't give her the green light to be a total bitch to her old friends who are trying to help her. I'm sure we all have friends whose husbands cheated on them, causing the marriage to breakdown, and some will have been in that situation themselves. @MrsSunshine2b's poor friend lost her husband at a very young when she had children to care for, which is absolutely devastating. I've not seen anyone behave like this because something horrible happened to them.
It does sound as if @Cornishcockleshells needs to have an honest conversation and take a big step back if that doesn't go well.

I took her out for a spa day and she complained about it all day, she didn’t even thank me, it was very costly and miserable day in the end. Just lately she says oh your life is so perfect, or comments unkindly about a new sweater and even said she feels sorry for my dh!

I'd have pulled her up sharply at the time over the DH comment. And not even a thank you?

Hell no.

You need to address all of this with her. It's been 18 months. She's not trying to find a life, she's trying to tear down yours, and no doubt others', while she continues to wallow. I'd make it clear you cannot and you will not continue to be there for someone who is not only focused 100% on her own navel, but is now being deliberately unkind and nasty, and not even showing basic manners when friends do nice things for her. Like you funding a spa day out.

It's an unknown. The OP has suggested the friend claims she was not allowed to work. But all the circumstantial evidence including:

1. That her husband left her for someone who worked;
2. That she appeared to love the SAH lifestyle;
3. That she never had a job, ever, even just after graduation; and
4. Isn't seeking work now

Does seem to suggest it was more likely that not working was a choice and claims to the contrary are a narrative to secure sympathy and maintenance.

@Redmat have i missed where it says he wouldn’t let her work??? The OP indicates that it seemed she didn’t want to work

Her grief over her marriage does not give her the right to be unkind and perpetually morose. I would tell her exactly that, and if she responds with ugly language then she is choosing to end the friendship.

Who knows why she didn't work? Neither she or her ex are likely telling the truth, plus the reasons are lost in time.

My MIL didn't work after getting married. By the time I met her and FIL they were co-existing in a state of mutual bitterness. They both gave very different, valid and believable reasons why she hadn't worked and what the other thought about this - however they were two totally incompatible accounts. Something had gone very wrong a long time ago and now they were both stuck with it.

Excellent point. It makes me even more suspicious of it being the wife not wanting to work rather than the husband forcing her not too. This will be a great acid test.

I think talking to her is important - if you do want to save the friendship, it's your only hope since it can't go on as it is - but I'd be very wary of doing it by letter. That's something that people intend suggest because it's easier for the writer and you think you're preventing the recipient from being put on the spot, but in my experience people do not respond well to it. It's often seen as a way of having your say whils not being available for their response. Even a text message or email might go down better, as you have a readily available channel to reply in a way you haven't with a letter.

If you really do want to get her to engage positively with it, you'd also need to phrase it so it doesn't sound accusatory even though obviously she has been behaving really badly. It's hard but I think it's the only way you might be able to resolve this, if you do want to try.

Call me a cynic but she could easily be one of the people who go on the divorce boards asking if they should get a job now or wait for a better settlement. Then dressing up her own self worth by claiming to her friends that the reason she cannot work is someone else's fault. It's not unheard of.