imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

And some more information in this Telegraph article by Oliver Brown about the IBA tests published overnight.

https://archive.is/A3hOz

“Three months on, as the IOC pours scorn on fresh reporting in France about “unverified documents whose origin cannot be confirmed”, the IBA is mounting a staunch defence of the accuracy of its testing procedures.”

“It was a chromosome test, to check for XX or XY, and these two boxers didn’t meet the eligibility criteria, because they both fell into the XY category,” Chris Roberts, the IBA chief executive, tells Telegraph Sport. “They were tested twice, in 2022 and 2023. When you receive a secondary laboratory test with the same results, demonstrating that both boxers are ineligible, it’s clear. What comes with it is our obligation and our duty of care to the other athletes.”

and this

“But the IBA letter does spell out the specifics, stating: “Chromosome analysis reveals male karyotype.” Imaging is also included, for both Khelif and Lin, of an X and Y chromosome, illustrating that the tests were conducted by a Delhi laboratory certified by the Swiss-based International Organisation for Standardisation. The problem is that the IOC refuses to accept its legitimacy, adamant that they were conducted arbitrarily.”

The IBA have also offerred to pay for yet another test is Khelif wants it.

Another article for all those who say, ‘but he gets beaten sometimes’ or deny/dismiss the danger.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344774758_Biomechanical_assessment_of_various_punching_techniques

Every time I see the quotes about being born a woman, lived as a woman, competed as a woman... I see Thomas Bach saying 'Some people want to own the definition of who is a woman'.

Bloody hell Thomas... it sure as hell isn't yours to make up whatever definition fits your inexplicable narrative.

Kellie Harrington of the wonderful victory dance with the XX sign at the end... she knew!!!

This.

Its always about tgecnan, hus feelings and never about what women want, feelings or safety. Men trump women, even when it comes to pretending to be a woman. Its disgraceful so many fawning women suck up to men's bull.

No way on this earth did I ever think that he was a she. Everything about him screamed male. The way he walked , dressed, spoke, gestured ,boxed. Everything. So no surprise there then. Should give back the gold medal.

Quite.

BTW the photo posted further up is not Khélif, as is made clear in the link.
Not only does it not look like him, the badge on the shirt is Moroccan, and during the Olympics it was suggested that the whole IK-is-a-man thing was cooked up by Morocco to discredit Algeria and prevent their Star Turn and National Icon from getting a medal.

Yes I thought it was odd that photo was part of the link. As explained in the text:

"Below is Khadija El-Mardi of Morocco, for example, who likely would be accused of failing to meet this supposed "western feminine beauty standard." El-Mardi won gold in the Heavyweight category at the 2023 World Championships. She is advancing to the quarter-finals in Paris as we speak. She's one of the best female boxers out there.

El-Mardi is a woman. Her features and tall stature literally do not matter. She is biologically female. Sex testing would return an XX.
Women are adult human females. This is true regardless of their external appearance.
Likewise, men are adult human males. This is true regardless of abnormalities or defects in their secondary sex characteristics."

Actually, the more worrying thing is that it’s easier for men to cut weight, meaning they can fight much smaller opponents at the same weight

That's right, and in the meantime Khélif bulked up to the next weight category - something that having been through male puberty made possible, because he was able to put on the extra kilos as muscle.

Amy Broadhurst tried to do the same thing, and it didn't work because not having been through male puberty, she couldn't build up muscle, and when she put on the extra kilos, she just lost condition and strength instead.

BTW the photo posted further up is not Khélif, as is made clear in the link.
Not only does it not look like him, the badge on the shirt is Moroccan, and during the Olympics it was suggested that the whole IK-is-a-man thing was cooked up by Morocco to discredit Algeria and prevent their Star Turn and National Icon from getting a medal.

@NonPlayerCharacter

Nobody believes this shite. Nobody. We just need to know why so many people are willing to throw away womens safety, equal opportunities (there are far fewer opportunities and much less money in women's sports so they're disadvantaged anyway) to uphold a delusional male self image. That's the heart of this matter.

Because they are focussing on what the man needs not how it impacts the women. They go in with the presumption that he should be accomodated by women, the only question being how.

That's why we get people saying "it's all very complicated" and "how can you be so awful to this poor suffering person". Because for them the question is "at what point is this man so far removed from other men we might as well consider him a woman?" or "what is a fair way to balance this man's need to be included with women with the impact on women?". And a fair answer to those questions is indeed complicated. It's so complicated it is impossible.

But put the women and what they need in the centre and all that complexity melts away.

"Are women the same as weak men, or men with surgery, or men with low testosterone" . No. They are a different sex to men.
"Do women benefit from including men in their sports?" No. They lose out.

I found it interesting, if not in any way surprising, that the Guardian made no mention of the report a couple of days ago, and are only reporting on this man's challenge to it.

And here is the Guardian reporting on the announcement of a legal action.

https://archive.ph/KUO78#selection-1577.0-1577.294

Readers, please notice here the sleight of hand language being used. Again.

Khelif said after winning gold: “I am fully qualified to take part in this competition – I am a woman. I was born a woman, I’ve lived as a woman and I’ve competed as a woman. There’s no doubt that there are enemies of success and that gives my success a special taste because of these attacks.”

Again, this statement is not inconsistent at all with the Reduxx articles.

I am fully qualified to take part in this competition.

Yes, because the IOC deliberately changed its policy to accept male people with 5ARD and other DSDs in 1999. They did not have specific Boxing policy for the Paris 2024 games because they had banned the involvement of the IBC who HAD a policy for male people not being able to compete in the female policy. Leaving the boxing with the generic IOC guidelines which included male people as 'fully qualified' to compete in the female category.

I am a woman.

Sure, under the current IOC guidelines any male athlete says they are a 'woman' and has the passport that shows this fulfils part of the criteria. If a male with a DSD stated they were not a woman, they would not be able to participate as I understand it.

I was born a woman

Yes. This is true, because a doctor signed off on an error on a birth certificate which is common for male people with this particular medical condition.

I’ve lived as a woman

Notice here that Khelif says 'lived as a woman', not 'living as a woman'. Could be just a language error. But yes, if the passport says 'female' and Khelif competes as a female boxer, then that is all that is needed to 'live as a woman' for the Olympics.

I’ve competed as a woman

Yes, because of the rule changes from 1999. However, this strangely ignores that three boxing confederations BANNED Khelif in 2023 from competing as a 'woman'. It is only really the Olympics that allowed this.

And so it goes. This is not me making bad faith interpretations here. This is me pointing out how the language that the IOC and Khelif and Khelif's management work to avoid an accurate and true fact that would change people's minds.

None of them say 'Khelif is a female person with XX chromosomes'.

This tactic is the tactic used by those supporting Caster Semenya's inclusion and Mboma and others. However, since Semenya, there has been one dramatic change. No longer do we see 'This is a female person with naturally high testosterone'. Because that has been shown to be a direct falsehood.

Notice that they have not used this in regards to Khelif.... because Khelif reduced testosterone under the guidance of the endocrinologists Soumaya Fedala and Jacques Young at the Kremlin-Bicêtre hospital in Paris, France, and the Mohamed Lamine Debaghine hospital in Algiers, Algeria.

So, Khelif's testosterone for the Olympics was suppressed or at least leading up to the Olympics.

AND NO FEMALE ATHLETE HAS TO REDUCE THEIR NATURALLY PRODUCED TESTOSTERONE LEVELS.

Note: And media outlets question why people don't trust them anymore!

It is just like the fuckwittery around Hubbard's selection in the Tokyo Olympics. Far older than the female weightlifters.... but apparently there is no fucking male physical advantages.

He wasn't only nearly twice their age, he had also recently sustained a serious injury. He was never more than middling national level as a fit young man, but he became an Olympian in middle age after injury and deemed a fair match against women in their 20s and absolute physical peak. But he didn't WIN so it was all very fair and he had no advantage.

Nobody believes this shite. Nobody. We just need to know why so many people are willing to throw away womens safety, equal opportunities (there are far fewer opportunities and much less money in women's sports so they're disadvantaged anyway) to uphold a delusional male self image. That's the heart of this matter.

Khelif was defeated by Kellie Harrington in the Tokyo Olympics. Khelif started boxing only in 2016 and went through lock down. So, a boxer with much less than five years experience made it to the Olympics only having around 2 years international experience.

It is such a fucked up 'gotcha' it is ludicrous. And yet, what it also shows is that in just 3 years this male boxer improved dramatically AND moved up a weight class. Well, hey. Puberty finished I guess. Either way, still a relatively inexperienced boxer compared the female boxers that competed and still people think this is a great 'gotcha'...

As I asked "Can you name any other female boxer gold medalist at the 2024 Olympics who only started boxing in 2016 when Khelif started?" and no one has come forward with an answer.

The statement that the poster made reminded me of Miller in Australia's comment. A male of over 50 years old when Miller made the statement after being an Australian Aquatic event champion for years, so had elite fitness, and then becoming a 'woman' who then played rugby with twenty something year olds. Miller made a stupid statement about how Miller didn't see any other 40 + year old female's playing rugby. Miller called the honest answers 'hate'. People pointed out that Miller was male and that female people of the same age a) are unlikely to have to fitness and speed to play with 20 something female players so wouldn't be picked AND b) perimenopausal and menopausal female players would risk significant injury playing with 20 something female players.

It is just like the fuckwittery around Hubbard's selection in the Tokyo Olympics. Far older than the female weightlifters.... but apparently there is no fucking male physical advantages.

So, yeah, the very fact that Khelif made Olympic selection with such little experience compared to the other quarter finalists is a significant fact that the poster's making that comparison miss.

But hey.... it is all part of the fuckwittery around this topic, isn't it?

Unless I'm mixed up, my recollection is that Harrington defeated Khelif prior to the most recent Olympics, in the period of time before he'd received intensive training.

Originally, Khelif's technique was simply not up to it - he was relying on brute force alone.

Theoretically, yes. He'd have to change his legal sex

He wouldn't in many countries, including the U.K.

The 'but he lost' fallacy never works because those attempting to leverage it in have lost sight (if they ever had it) of WHY there is a protected category of sports for female people. It is almost like the person trying to use it has never once considered sports and the purpose of sport.

And it is supposed to be protected sports category.

If you have used this tactic such as @Happiestwhen and others have, perhpas think about what other category boundaries you would be happy to accept using your own 'the rules allowed it' argument. Would you say the same about:

A 25 year old competing against 10 year olds in a 10 and under category? 'What about' if that 25 year old lost to a 10 year old? Does that make it ok? What about if that 25 year old was 'just like a 10 year old' in some way, does that make it ok?

A 25 year old competing against 85 year olds in a 85+ year old master's category? 'What about' if that 25 year old lost to a 86 year old? Does that make it ok?

Only one 85+ year old was displaced from the race after all.... what the fuck does that matter?

A person who had 90% vision competing in a category for those with 5% vision in visually impaired category for those with 5% and less ?

A person who was a professional standard athlete competing in a novice only event ?

A bicycle with an electric engine competing against a 100% human powered bicycle in the Tour de France?

If you have said yes to any of these, why did you say yes?

If you have said no to any, then why would you then accept a male with pubertal advantages in a female sports category? Especially, where that male person can deliver a life limited or shortening punch ?

Because, why?
A emotive personal history?
He is just like a female boxer?
He gets beaten by female boxers?
He cannot compete with other male boxers because ..... (insert reason)?
His identity document says he is 'female' and just because the is not the accurate sex, that shouldn't matter?
He is reducing his testosterone?

Is it just female people who you are ok to screw over in accepting their protected category is no longer fit for purpose? Why? Because any male person with that male pubertal advantage in the right situation can qualify for the category if the rules allow it?

Quite. I can only assume I'd get my arse thoroughly kicked at the Paralympics, but that doesn't mean I've any right to take a spot off someone in the amputee races.

Irrelevant. If Lance Armstrong had been beaten sometimes would it still have been cheating?

Plus he could have thrown some matches to try and muddy the waters like Lia Thomas and Laurel Hubbard did.

FFS

My 7 year old is a faster runner than me, despite me being the one that actually goes on runs. Does that grant me entry into the local kids' athletics club?

No because being a crap adult runner doesn't mean I get to race 7 year olds as a consolation prize. And whilst many kids would beat me, no doubt I'd beat some of the others and in doing so bump them down the rankings and mean one kid couldn't join at all.

It's obvious, right? And that's without even being a contact sport like boxing.

Theoretically, yes. He'd have to change his legal sex, but even if this weren't possible in the US I bet some other country would have him and let him. The IOC allow anyone who's legally considered a woman to compete in the women's category.

I'm not sure what the position is for testosterone levels, but I believe he'd also have to confirm he's not pregnant.

It depends how accurate the translation is.

And words like 'soldier' can be used figuratively.

Don't know anything about this substacker:

https://khmezek.substack.com/p/was-imane-khelif-in-the-algerian

There's got to be such a massive helping of sexism to it. What's the point of women's sport?

You might as well just say let's watch cheetahs run then, not men.

Women at the peak of their physical fitness giving everything they've got, is an aspiration, an inspiration. Watching men cheat really, really isn't.