imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

I agree.

IK was also blessed with knowledge about how far his strength could go. He will have seen, not only his limitations, but the damage he could do with his male physiology in training and in previous fights etc. Why anyone would actively choose to proceed knowing that level of advantage is in place? That is not 'sport'. It's an abuse of power and natural advantage. And why would anyone with any form of emotional regulation want to engage in the abuse of someone where you could end up ending their life? There is something very amiss with someone who knows they have a significant advantage over an opponent, can hurt them quite easily, and carrying on anyway.

FOR ALL THOSE DENYING THAT A MALE WITH 5ARD DOES NOT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE AS POWERFUL AS A MALE WITHOUT THE MEDICAL CONDITION

RE: COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE OF 5ARD FROM THE CAS FINDING IN SEMENYA'S CASE

This is an interesting quote Ross Tucker has clipped from the CAS finding.
The text lifted from the photo says:

Because they are "biologically indistinguishable.. in all relevant respects". athletes with 5-ARD experience the same ergogenic effect from these physiological changes as males without DSD experience. The only material physical difference between 5-ARD athletes and male athletes without DSD is "the size and shape of their external genitals", which has no impact on athletic performance.

While no 5-ARD athlete has yet won a women's event by a margin of 10-12%, this fact has nothing to do with their condition. Rather, it reflects the fact that, "the particular [5-ARD] athletes we have seen thus far are not as good as the best males. Like many other (non-elite) males, they still beat the very best biological females, just by a smaller margin."

https://x.com/scienceofsport/status/1722006033491513584?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

His tweet says:

“It's interesting that this came up in the CAS hearing, too. World Athletics had kind of tap danced and skirted around it in the Chand case, but when Semenya played this card at CAS, World Athletics responded, and point 289 of the CAS decision captures the conclusion:”

I have seen a paper that goes through this by assessing the hormone levels of 5ARD and the hormones for sporting performance are produced and used by the body as per normal. I will see if I can dig it up again,.

Khelif does not identify as trans. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

My source, Africa News, but also reported elsewhere.

Khelif says he is a woman. Or sometimes a girl. He isn't, of course, he is a man with a DSD which only affects males.

It's already been confirmed by the IBA but no one wanted to listen to them either.

This is just more background and will cross over with other posts, but I pulled this together in those many threads during the Olympics. And it could have some years slightly off.

A VIEW ON HOW MALE ATHLETES GOT TO COMPETE IN THE PARIS OLYMPICS 2024

1999 - From what I gather, from the Nature article posted up thread, is that a campaign group successfully convinced the IOC in the late 90s to prioritise inclusion. Because of what they position was the human rights violation of these male athletes with DSDs suffering indignities during testing and the outcomes of that testing.

So in the 1999 the OIC removed testing. 82% of female athletes wanted testing to remain.

Ie. My understanding is that the group campaigned that any male with a Difference of Sex Development that had been incorrectly registered as 'female' on their passport was to never be sex tested by the IOC again and allowed to compete as if they were female, regardless of whether they had gone through male puberty.

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

2004 - Then in 2004 they allowed male people who surgically removed their testes to compete in female competition. Because once you allow one group of male people in, you must equally allow the other in or you are discriminating against transgender people.

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-approves-consensus-with-regard-to-athletes-who-have-changed-sex-1

2015 -Then in 2015, a campaign group including Harper, using Harper’s flawed study (see nequals8.com web site) convinces the IOC that it is unfair discrimination to exclude any male with a transgender identity describing themselves as a woman. The IOC changes the policy to allow them.

https://nequals8.com

^https://cgscholar.com/bookstore/works/race-times-for-transgender-athletes^
https://stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

2016 -Then came the Rio trio in the female 800m and we start to see the testosterone suppression of the male people with DSDs come in. Semenya takes this to court in 2019. Appealed 2020. The evidence presented confirmed 5ARD and testosterone of 21 nmol/L.

2021 - 2020 Tokyo games held in 2021 was the testosterone suppressed games. Hubbard, a late 40 something male in female event where next youngest was probably a decade and a half younger, shines light on the issue.
The IOC reacts by announcing a review.

The new guidelines released Nov 2021 devolve responsibility for policy to each discipline’s international federation. ie. They force the sporting federations to make the hard decisions that the IOC refuse to make.

https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Beyond-the-Games/Human-Rights/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf#_ga=2.219716894.621299853.1686571450-594927581.1678187184

They also reaffirm that 'inclusivity' is their over all priority. They say that safety is as well, but this is clearly contradictory when you consider boxing as an example.

The IOC is clear that they RECOGNISE that the inclusion of male athletes will be UNFAIR but their priority is inclusion. Richard Budgett said this.

The federations then develop their own policies. that have done this are : FINA, WA, UCI, IBA and WR. FIFA for instance announced a review years ago and done nothing. IBA announced their new policy in 22/23.

The WA have even stated that their new guidelines for the Olympics immediately excluded 13 males with DSDs with testosterone advantage from the competitions until those 13 male athletes chose to reduce their testosterone to 2.5 nmol/L for 2 years. 13 just in athletics competitions alone! (By the way, this reduction has already been shown to not eliminate unfair male advantage, but this is where we are at the moment.)

^https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/65051900^

"Coe said this will impact 13 DSD athletes, seven (55%) of whom compete in running events above a mile, with six (45%) in sprinting events below 400m."

By the IOC removing the IBA from organising the boxing, the IOC left boxing only with the IOC inclusive guidelines.

So, we know from the announcement by Budgett from IOC in November 2021 that fairness was a lower priority to inclusion. It was along the lines of ‘we know it is unfair to include male people with pubertal advantage, but inclusion is our aim.’

And the IOC and other organisations still claim that Semenya is a 'female with naturally high testosterone' to this day. Despite the world being easily able to find the evidence presented to the CAS that Semenya is MALE with 5-ARD and had tested with a testosterone level of 21nmol/L. It looks like Khelif had levels of around 14-15 nmol/L.

NO female has that level and is healthy. They are likely to be gravely ill.

That is where we are now.

I'm not sure what reliable new outlet means these days. Many mainstream sources are in the business of obscuring the sex of men presenting as women. Is this reliable reporting?

Trans identified man.

My question as well.

Also: Has there been any kind of report by a (generally considered to be) reliable news outlet?

His mother is even worse. Luckily I'd almost forgotten about him as he seems to have stopped moaning so loudly recently. The big man baby.

It's also silly how he put those filtered photos up, but the minute he speaks or moves on film, we SEE him. As we did Khelif.

Sorry, only just seeing this now. Women boxers have consented to fight other women. Not men. I hope this clarification helps.

Sorry, what is a TIM?

I just hope to god no more women are forced into a ring with him.

Emily was sent back to the men's classes, much as he wailed all over Instagram that this was an act of genocide (his words, not mine).

Ffs he is such a narcissist

Man Punches Women in Face. Awarded Gold Medal. Women who Object Labelled Bigots.

I have no sympathy for Khelif. A micropenis is not an excuse.

From another thread:

'Did you know that male boxers don't wear helmets because their punching power is so great that the risk of a broken neck (torsion injury from catching on the helmet) greatly outweighs that of a fractured skull?
Now, women have much thinner skulls, so they do wear helmets. Lucky they don't risk a broken neck from being punched by men, isn't it?'

He could have killed a woman. He doesn't care.

Lozano said that to avoid further injury to the women, the coaches eventually paired Khelif with Jose Quiles, one of Spain’s top male boxers."

That is horrifying. You cannot tell me that no-one around him thought he was actually a woman based on this information alone. The whole lot are just fucking cheating men 😡

How do you think you’d get through life having no periods, and having a small penis, and not realise you were a man?!

So where are we now?

We have two tests from different independent labs in different countries producing results saying that these athletes have XY chromosomes as per Dr. Ioannis Filippatos (Surgeon, Sport Medicine Doctor, and Ob/Gyn Specialist). Confirmed by IBA, WBO and EBC.

We have the French endocrinologist saying “ despite of her karyotype and her testosterone levels. He said : “There is a problem with her hormones, and with her chromosomes, but she's a woman.”

In fact, we have someone reporting on the results of those tests from Paris now as per below.

And then we have an Algeria doctor who monitored the testosterone suppression. “We then worked with an Algeria-based doctor to control and regulate Imane's testosterone levels, which are currently in the female range.”

NO FEMALE PERSON HAS TO REDUCE THEIR TESTOSTERONE (AS PER THE POST UPTHREAD) TO COMPETE AGAINST FEMALE PEOPLE. The very fact that Khelif's team is reporting this telling the world that Khelif was MALE!

The Paris tests:

https://archive.ph/sPWL9

The Correspondent has poked his nose into the boxer's medical file - the same file that the Algerian Boxing Federation and Imane Khelif are keeping safe. It comes from the tightly closed drawers of two renowned hospitals: the Kremlin Bicêtre hospital in Paris and the Mohamed Lamine Debaghine hospital in Algiers. Where the champion is followed by the crème de la crème of endocrinology: Professors and heads of department, Soumaya Fedala and Jacques Young.

In their report, submitted in June 2023, the two doctors, Young and Fedala, point out, without beating around the bush, Imane Khelif's pathology, an “Alpha 5 reductase type 2” deficiency, a genetic anomaly which leads to metabolic dysfunction in testosterone and dehydroandrosterone”.

and

Results? The “pelvic MRI” shows “ an absence of a uterus” , the presence of “gonads in the inguinal canals” ( testicles in her abdomen, editor’s note) , “a blind vagina” and a micro-penis in the form of “clitoral hypertrophy ”.

Array Comparative Genomic Hybridization (aCGH) analyses show that she carries the “46XY” karyotype… and confirms “the male formula”, without highlighting “ a significant genomic imbalance”.

The “ hormonal exploration ” reveals a “male type testosterone level of 14.7”, while the female gender does not exceed the maximum level of 3.

In short, Imane Khelif is a man in a woman's shell. Or a woman in a man's shell. In any case, not a "normal" girl...

So, how long will sporting bodies, and the general public, continue to deny that Khelif is a male athlete and has been known to be a male athlete since 2023 at the very latest? Most likely well before then.

Or is this just going to be another Semenya cycle where people simply keep repeating the misinformation of "Semenya is a woman with high testosterone"?

The IOC knew for a fact that Caster Semenya was a man with 5 ARD before the Rio Olympics and still gave him medals.

They have taken an ideological position that biological sex is less important than how someone identifies.

If anyone can explain why they think this ideology is kind or progressive, please let me know.

My personal view is that it's monstrous to allow men to beat women up in the boxing ring and call it 'sport'.

He calls himself a woman. Parades around in a dress.
So yep. He is def a TIM.

there are no human hermaphrodites - and I don't think he has a trans identity (yet).

He's just a bloke that is a bit shit at male boxing but surprisingly good at beating up women.

Sunk cost fallacy, innit?

I do agree with the poster above who says they have some sympathy for those like IK who find themselves going through the "wrong" puberty which affects their entire sense of self.

But my sympathy runs out when it comes to knowingly competing as a man against women, with a colossal unfair advantage and pushing women out of sport when the bar for women's participation is already so much higher (e.g. culturally where it's not deemed "ladylike", or that women's sports don't get the same level of funding etc. etc.)

I wouldn't want any prize I hadn't won fair and square but the likes of IK don't seem to give a shit.

Guess that libel investigation again Elon and JKR is dead in the water now, given that to libel someone what you say has to be untrue and this report, regardless of having been leaked, is in the public domain and proves that he is a biological male? Not that either of them spent a penny on legal advice or lost a second’s sleep over this, but there may be celebratory cocktail and a raucous cackle over this tonight.

If only the IOC had a way to determine which athletes were male and which were female?

If only the IOC gave a damn about which athletes were male and which were female?

Then again this issue only really affects womens sports and the IOC are notorious misogynists so protecting the female sports catagory doesn't concern them. Have a read of Sharron Davis's book for more information on that.

if you want more info on Kalif's DSD Emma Hilton has done a great and very detailed X thread about it

https://x.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1853432792488558638

So he's not a hermaphrodite. He's a full on TIM.

What I think doesn't really matter. If official policies over how medical info is governed aren't complied with, it likely won't make a difference. As others said, the IOC was accepting passports as proof of gender so this new info probably won't make a difference.