imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

I recall sympathising with Semenya until I fully understood the issue.

Boy did I get that wrong...

No human has ever produced both gametes, so no, no human is a hermaphrodite.

There are some complex and rare DSDs. But no hermaphrodites.

PMK for the excellent summaries of men’s physical strength.

I recall that IK lost matches before he was given better training (in France, I think?). Your theory that he simply wasn't that skilled would be correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4fP8WZXplR4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

There are people with man bits and lady bits. Still one or the other, but technically hermaphrodites because they have both.

Thinking back to the time when an organisation (might have been Transgender Trend but I’m not sure) did a FOI request and found that male trans prisoners were far more likely to be incarcerated for sex crimes than their non-trans counterparts.
Obviously this was met with uproar and accusations of bigotry (of course), so the study was then done independently. The figures were found to be higher than the feminist org had included in their data.

It was Fair Play For Women.

Honestly I don't even think Imane Khelif was ever a hermaphrodite in the first place.

No human ever has been. We are all male or female, all our lives. He's male.

Lol.

But he wasn't and won't, because he knows if he tried suing JK herself, the medical report would get disclosed. He's filed a case in France, against unknown persons, and argued in it that he was being cyberbullied by JK, amongst others.

It's a shame he's too chicken though, it'd be a laugh.

Puberty is affected by y 5-alpha reductase deficiency, so it wouldn't be a normal male puberty. (Though it wouldn't be a female puberty either.)

I’m glad he’s been proved to be male. But it doesn’t make much difference, as men are now allowed to compete in women’s sport if they say they ‘identify’ as a woman.

This fellow is only worse than the rest because he took the opportunity to beat up a woman. But all males competing in women’s sports are cheating, and they continue to get away with it.

@wombat15 no, clearly not. Hence him deciding he’d rather fight women. Just like all those other mediocre sports men who decide they’ll look better if they’re compared to women rather than other men.

Yes it was about 8 x higher than the rest of the male prison population.

Honestly I don't even think Imane Khelif was ever a hermaphrodite in the first place. I think he was born a full man with a normal penis. But because Algeria is a sexist muslim country, he might have been raised as a girl because his parents WANTED a girl, or he might have just been in touch with his feminine side so it was better to call him a woman than have him suspected as a gay man.

Then when he grew up, he learnt that he could professionally get off to punching up women for sport because he's too much of a coward to punch other man.

I do agree that reliable is incredibly subjective.

But I couldn’t find anything even remotely mainstream about this new development, tbh.

Khelif does not identify as trans. A quote from Khelif
"They don't have the right to say that I'm transgender. This is a big insult to my family, to the honor of my family, to the honor of Algeria, to the women of Algeria and especially for the Arab world."

and yet astonighingly I've seen no trans/trans fans going after Khelif for this massive insult - make it make sense 😂😂😂

reposting because all this is very important & worth repeating

You may not think it matters that men are allowed by the IOC into womens sporting catagories.

But do take a minute to read the above and understand that TRA's and their minions - embedded in most government departments, NHS etc - have sucessfuly convinced the "be kinders" and the unthinkers and the BBC/Guardian and other media, and misogynists, that WOMEN and GIRLS shall not have words to describe them as a class of people. Even "female" as a class shall be denied us.

So while calling a TIM a man is the very worst that could possibly happen to him <faints> women and girls shall be denied even a single word, and we are meant to be fucking thankful for this privilige.

I DON'T FUCKING THINK SO!!!

Having a mutation that causes genital under-development in utero does not affect strength, so, yes: why not?

It is, thankfully, taken seriously by actual boxing organisations outside of Olympic competition. The major amateur boxing organisation (and the previous governing body for Olympic boxing) is the IBA. They do perform testing (and also have testosterone requirements) for women's boxing. It was their two tests which determined that Khalif is a man, and disqualified him (and also Lin Yu-Ting) from their competitions on that basis. The IBA has been dismissed as being corrupt by dint of being Russian. That "can't trust those Russians" narrative has gone a long way in helping brush this under the rug.The IBA did actually go to fairly great lengths to stop Khalif and Lin competing at the Olympics, on the grounds that it would be unsafe for women. The IOC though doesn't require proof, beyond a passport, that women are in fact women, and so ignored the IBA's protestations (and also lied that they knew Khalif was a man despite being sent the tests as proof.)

He is a man who calls himself a woman.
That makes him trans.
A trans identified man.
It's like me saying I don't identify as white even though I have white skin and I'm British. Still doesn't change that I'm white.

The comments he's made there would get most people labelled as transphobic by the usual suspects. Certainly most women. Funny really.

ACADEMIC PAPER IN RESPONSE TO THE IOC FRAMEWORK

This a good paper for pulling a lot of the information available up until the end of 2023 together.

The IOC framework was released in November 2021, after there was so much pushback about male athletes such as Hubbard (and historically Semenya).

^https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/sms.14581^

The International Olympic Committee framework on fairness, inclusion and nondiscrimination on the basis of gender identity and sex variations does not protect fairness for female athletes

February 1, 2024

Tommy R. Lundberg, Ross Tucker, Kerry McGawley, Alun G. Williams, Grégoire P. Millet, Øyvind Sandbakk, Glyn Howatson, Gregory A. Brown, Lara A. Carlson, Sarah Chantler, Mark A. Chen, Shane M. Heffernan, Neil Heron, Christopher Kirk, Marie H. Murphy, Noel Pollock, Jamie Pringle, Andrew Richardson, Jordan Santos-Concejero, Georgina K. Stebbings, Ask Vest Christiansen, Stuart M. Phillips, Cathy Devine, Carwyn Jones, Jon Pike, Emma N. Hilton

Perspectives:

The IOC framework on fairness, inclusion and nondiscrimination on the basis of gender identity and sex variations is misaligned with current scientific and medical evidence and offers insufficient protection of fair competition for female athletes within a female category. Also, it does not adequately engage female athletes, who are primary stakeholders in their sport. Male pubertal development results in large performance advantages in athletic sports, which necessitates a female category that excludes male advantages, to ensure equal opportunity through fair competition for female athletes at all levels of sport. There is currently no evidence that testosterone suppression in transgender women can reverse male development and negate male advantages. In contrast, there is convincing evidence that the male advantage persists even when testosterone is suppressed. As a result, sports face the uncomfortable reality that the inclusion of transgender women in female sports categories cannot be reconciled with fairness, and in some instances safety, for females in athletic sports. The IOC must reconsider its framework and revise the 10 principles to reflect scientific evidence and fundamental principles of fair competition. We also recommend implementing a system to enable female stakeholders to be consulted in this matter and to have their voices heard, recognized, and valued.

This paper is worth fully reading as it goes through some of the fallacies we have seen attempted on this very thread.

To be fair, however culpable Khelif is in all this, the IOC and the sporting bodies that gave him the green light in his own country are more so.

How do you see this working? Which 'reliable news outlet' will be able to get any source to publicly confirm this without Khelif's permission?

Whatever about how Khelif found out about and came to terms with his condition. He failed 2 eligibility tests in 2023. He didn't appeal those tests or take any others. In 2024, he was 100% aware of his status as a male.