imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

The link provided, even read in the original French as suggested, doesn't treat the matter as complicated. It is written slightly like an essay, that's all, so 'argument for the decision to let Khelif fight, argument against, and conclusion' . That doesn't mean that the article is saying it's complicated. If anything, in the French, it's a touch patronising/rude in tone about the pro Khelif approach. Or that's how I read it - that may not be intended and could be cultural: I'm neither French nor Algerian so may be reading more into it than necessary. Definitely very firmly on the side of women though.

I would add that some rare DSDs are more complex than 46 XY 5 ARD, but given that so many elite female athletes have to compete with men who have 5 ARD it's important to recognise that after puberty men with this particular DSD are not all that different to any other men.

As I said, there are posts with lots of easier to digest information on this thread. Perhaps they will help.

Yeah that article is from a reputable source. Not.

The girl done good.

I think some people are under the misconception that Khelif's situation is incredibly complex and confusing. But a small penis is nothing like a vagina. A baby born with a small penis might be mistaken for having a vulva. But it doesn't mean that someone with 5 ARD is 'neither one nor another'.

A colloquial name for 5 ARD is 'penis at 12' because once puberty kicks in, the small penis tends to enlarge, and the testosterone from the undescended testicles unmistakably masculinises the body. Instead of having periods, a boy's voice breaks and he develops a male body shape and musculature.

There was a famous Olympic 'female' athlete called Erika Schinegger. He found out after winning a gold medal that he was a man with 5 ARD. He changed his name to Erik and gave his medals back to the women who should have won them. Then he had an operation to descend his testicles and went on to naturally become a father.

Khelif could do the same thing.

BTW I follow a man on twitter who has a DSD. He is totally and utterly fed up, sick to the back teeth with having to tell people that he is male. That despite having a DSD which renders him infertile amongst other issues, he is male. No matter how many times he says it some idiot will insist that he is intersex, neither one thing or the other, or bizarrely both male and female. He's often called an hermaphrodite.
There is a huge amount of information out there about DSDs, often written for those of us who are non scientific. I wish people would read up about the conditions.

Not a boxer, I could never be violent to another being (unfortunately! I might not have been walked all over as a child/young adult if I had a natural propensity for violence 😞)

I was punched by a woman in a Sunderland nightclub because I picked up my male friend off the floor (after he was headbutted by her boyfriend and she didn't take kindly to me helping him). I was also punched (more than once, again unfortunately) by my ex husband. I've been physically assaulted by a couple of men and a couple of women in various ways and there is a world of difference in force and technique. I'd pick the woman over the man every time. Less damage.

Exactly - and building on all of this, it's important to be able to admit that we got something wrong and evolve our view accordingly.

Women do not deserve to fight men in the ring when they have not consented to this. Surely that can be agreed on as a principle?

For historical reasons Algeria and France have a very complicated and fractious relationship and Algeria is wont to cry discrimination, imperialism etc whenever France makes a move which doesn’t suit them. I wonder if this has affected decisions made around this case.

Phrases like this:
Alpha 5 reductase type 2” deficiency, a genetic anomaly which leads to metabolic dysfunction in testosterone and dehydroandrosterone”.

What do you find confusing?

so many people cannot/will not admit the truth to themselves.

they keep digging in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Its tragic really - for us all, & for society at large.

Men aren't women.

Men never will be women.
Not even those men who have DSD's and might have worn a pink ribbon as a child.
Not even those men who really really really want to be women.

None of us get to choose our sex - acceptance of this basic fact is very important. We are seeing how damaging lying about these fundamental trusths can be.

It's not offensive, and certainly not meant to be either.
I'm not saying it's correct- but it wouldn't be an uncommon conclusion based on what the article says.
There's nothing wrong or offensive with finding something confusing. Like many people, I find this story/situation confusing.

The cognitive dissonance on this thread is depressingly familiar. It’s always the same when the “inclusive” “be kind” SJW are faced with hard evidence that they have been unfair and unkind.

In simple terms, they either have to reflect on the truth that they condoned and championed a male punching a female as a good and progressive thing which destroys any pretence of them being progressive and “on the right side of history” or they have to try and argue that reality is not reality.

Anyone who attempts to justify a male punching a female at all, let alone for personal gain, is not progressive or liberal or enlightened but an old fashioned misogynistic bully.

Everyone is either male or female. People with a DSD are just that, people with a DSD. The fact is that certain DSDs are only found in males, and others in females. Ambiguous genitalia does not alter that. Today, tests can detect both the actual sex and also the DSD.
This person is a man with a DSD and has undescended testes and a micropenis. You can't get much more male than having a penis and testes.

Please read the thread.

There is a huge amount of information about 5ARD athletes on this thread.

Khelif is not 'neither one or the other.' This is very much misinformation and offensive.

Khelif is a male person with a difference of sex development under the name of 5ARD. Only male people get this. They have testes and their bodies produce testosterone and other hormones and use those hormones to go through male puberty.

Having a penis or not, nor having visible testicles or not does not make someone not a male person.

It is irrelevant to the sport and the sex category they are participating in that they were 'brought up as a girl' under organisations that understand how very dangerous it is to allow a male person to punch female people in boxing. The IOC failed to have any regulations that were boxing specific and therefore they allowed this boxer to compete and punch women in the face.

This is outrageous discrimination against female athletes and so dangerous for them. How can the rules be changed well in time for the next Olympics?

adding to @Helleofabore 's excellent point, if you watched the Olympic womens boxing the two MALE players won every single match they entered into. Their female opponents scored no points against either of the men in any of the fights.

This is highly unusal at Olympic level boxing - perhaps unprecendented?

All human beings are either male or female. No such condition exists where a human can be both/or neither

thanks for posting this.

I was looking for the excellent podcast Ross Tucker did on Science of Sport back in the 2020 Olympics on this subject when Laurel "I wanna be an answer to a Trivial Pursuit question & I am used to getting what I want" Hubbard cheated his way into womens weightlifting.

But I couldnt find it.

I followed the whole article from the link OP provided.
It's complicated. If you can read it in the orginal French do so, it's clearer.
https://lecorrespondant.net/imane-khelif-ni-ovaires-ni-uterus-mais-des-testicules/

It's not black or white really. He/she seems neither one or the other.
I agree that they probably shouldn't be boxing as a woman, but also I am uncomfortable with the witch hunt. I've been to that part of Algeria- it is poor and is socially quite conservative (unlike Algiers where you see girls in jeans and t-shirts), and as others have said, they were brought up as a girl, not a boy.

Peter Tatchell famously bangs on about his TIM friend who plays womens rugby and is apparently so much smaller than the women in his team. This, Tachell argues, is showing how men don't have any advantage.

What Tatchell & co ignores COMPLETELY is there are no small women in the rugby team - and the reason his TIM mate can hold his own on the WOMENS rugby team, being such a teeny little what not, is because he is MALE and has all that male muscle & strength in his small body - whereas a woman of the same size wouldn't make the team and if she did she would be much more physically vulnerable to injury.

The stupid is so strong in this movement - how on earth did they make so mch ground? How on earth did they convince so many people that men can be women with words and it will only concern you if you are a nasty bigot?

She also has a cracking pair of boobs, and a spectacular arse (not that "appearance" is in any way definitive, but she happens to be an absolutely beautiful woman, with no male features whatsoever) and, even more revealingly, she's birthed two children.