imane khelif has been allegedly confirmed to be a man.

"Not all Muslim women wear a headscarf🙄 if being carried by unrelated men wasn't considered appropriate in Algeria I am sure they wouldn't do that either. It would be pretty stupid given the controversy don't you think?"

The discussion on head scarf is actually irrelevant. The discussion of Khelif wearing shorts or any other types of clothing is not potentially going to be convincing.

This athlete has failed two sex tests which led to being banned by three international boxing organisation matches. At the IBC press conference, Dr. Ioannis Filippatos, a OBGYN and surgeon confirmed those tests. A reputable sports reporter from the USA has seen the tests and confirmed their conclusions publicly.

Khelif sought additional testing from Kremlin-Bicêtre in Paris and withdrew their appeal on those findings. This has been reported by Georges Carzola, one of Khelif's coaches, and now by a reporter Djaffar Air Aoudia. Both Carzola and Aoudia have also then reported that an Algerian specialist was monitoring Khelif's testosterone suppression.

NO female athlete needs to suppress their naturally occurring testosterone.

This discussion about headscarves is sparple.

More stupid than refusing to release test results that would end the controversy once and for all if he were female?

I love this circular logic. "Khelif is a woman so they are carrying Khelif like a man because they wouldn't be stupid enough to carry a man like a man because he is a woman."

Your side of the debate has made it completely safe for them to do stupid things. You've abandoned and attempt to punish any demonstration of truth and proof and continually deny reality by assertion. That's why they feel so safe in being so stupid. They are. Your Newspeak, doublethink and sheer dishonesty have made it very safe indeed. Unlike the women Khelif fought.

Two fingers yes.

Also probably something of a feeling that IK deserves women's stuff as a consolation prize for the misfortune of the DSD. I think that's behind a lot of the support.

Some men are probably appalled at the idea of a micropenis and are rejecting them from their idea of manhood, whilst simultaneously feeling empathy for the owner because they know they are a man really.

There is footage of Khelif being patted on the breast area of Khelif's chest by Khelif's coach while Khelif was in the ring during the Olympics.

Nothing has ever been said about that. If this coach feels such freedom to sexually assault an athlete in their charge by touching their breast area in a celebratory pat, surely something will have been done?

if being carried by unrelated men wasn't considered appropriate in Algeria I am sure they wouldn't do that either. It would be pretty stupid given the controversy don't you think?

It was clear that he and his team didn't give a fuck about optics. The whole thing was blatantly triumphant and two fingers up.

....I mean, how long did Wayne Cousins work for the police with the nickname "The Rapist"? Abusive men can often do what the fuck they want with little standing in their way. Algeria is not a more liberal or less misogynist society than the UK.

Edit not saying IK is as bad as WC, just pointing out extreme examples of abuse in plain sight which you'd think would be a bad idea and yet somehow doesn't prevent abusers from continuing to partake in life and hold important positions

Was he though?
He was scouted playing football in the street with other boys apparently.
I live close to several areas with large Muslim populations, I have seen boys playing football in the street etc quite a few times, never seen a girl with them.
Unless of course Algeria is a beacon of equality I very much doubt girls play out in the street with a load of boys either.

Of course not all Muslim women wear headscarves. Nobody is suggesting they do.

But lots of small things add up. Women have been forced to be detectives due to the misogynist bias of IOC, the media, and the world.

You're wrong about the behaviour of male people though. Males who are ok with abusing women are often ok with being outrageously blatant about it. And they very often get away with it because of the aforementioned misogynist bias. Trump is an extreme example of this. People are still going to vote for him. IK put female boxers in mortal danger. But to true believers in trans ideology even that doesn't exclude him from being a special male whose feelings are more important than women's safety.

The point is IK can behave how he like to those who believe deeply in trans ideology. It's all about faith, innit.

He might have been brought up pre puberty believing he is female, but for all we know, that could have gone out the window when puberty happened and it became clear that he isn't.

Why on earth are you still defending Khalif and calling him 'they'?

Do you think he should have free reign to compete as a 'woman' now that he knows he's not.

Is women's olympic sport an option, in your mind, for men who have sad back stories?

And yet........

Given Khelif was brought up as a woman don't you think it more likely that they know how women in Algeria are expected to dress and act?

Whilst I take your point, men in women's sports being stupid and not caring about optics is pretty much a given.

Not all Muslim women wear a headscarf🙄 if being carried by unrelated men wasn't considered appropriate in Algeria I am sure they wouldn't do that either. It would be pretty stupid given the controversy don't you think?

The whataboutery is by now fuckwittery in my view.

You are correct though, so much of it is irrelevant. However, in saying that it is often interesting to others to see that fuckwittery countered with different answers. Because each time, it can broaden understanding.

Because each time a fallacy is posted as some kind of answer, maybe as a ‘gotcha’ and is countered with fact, evidence and logic those reading take notice.

Of course, it is very frustrating and repetitive.

There is consistently too much whataboutery in male rights activism. For my part, I would actually rather they were honest and stated openly that they don't think females are of equal value and explained why.

I agree with this.

As this clearly is the position, own it. Justify it.

Whether a male 'passes' or not is irrelevant to whether it is safe, fair or equitable for them to compete against females.
It is a fact that the vast majority don't 'pass' anyway, but whether they do or don't, whether they wear dresses or not, whether they use make-up etc etc, still doesn't answer the question of WHY, given incontrovertible biological facts about size, strength, speed etc, it is fair, safe and equitable for males to compete against females and WHY, if it isn't, they are being allowed to.
There is consistently too much whataboutery in male rights activism. For my part, I would actually rather they were honest and stated openly that they don't think females are of equal value and explained why. Then at least we could have an honest conversation about what we value, how we value it, and why.
All this 'be kind, be inclusive, but Reduxx isn't mainstream, but it's just like a short person not being in a basketball team... .is irrelevant.

“Im not trolling google for photos of transexuals that are able to ‘pass’ but they exist”

Generally those that ‘pass’ in photos are female people taking testosterone. Or are male people who have had puberty blockers from very early puberty. Or are posed in particular ways.

’passing’ in photos are not an indication of ‘passing’ in real life.

I agree, we should certainly be more accepting of differences and not judging someones sex on what colour they like etc. This is why a lot of feminists are seen as Transphobic - we don't think that a 5 year old boy who likes to wear dresses and play with dolls is "trapped in the wrong body". Its also why a lot of feminists hate Drag, its a paradody of what men think women should look/act like.
Being a man or a woman is pure biology, not clothes or feelings.

i second that.

It uses a French News publication as their source, so if you don't believe Reddux (which go above and beyond for facts and information and have NEVER been wrong), you can choose to go straight to the French site and click on the English translator function, @hoarahloux^^

I even posted a handy link upthread.

Some people seem to be incapable of showing empathy to women.

Wouldn’t it be terrible to have your medical records leaked while everyone muses over what your genitals might look like? Yes, agreed, it wouldn’t be very nice.

Wouldn’t it be terrible to have trained all your life for a chance of Olympic glory and then be punched in the face by someone who is not eligible to compete with you, someone who could cause you serious harm and possibly even kill you, while the world cheers that person on? And then you feel you have to apologise for crying and refusing to continue the illegal fight that could have left you seriously injured or worse?

I stand with the women whose safety was put at risk.

2024, when a man can punch a woman, be lifted onto the shoulders of his coach, be applauded and given a gold medal! - everyone who argued for this should hang their heads in shame!

Well said @ZoeZee

This absolutely sums it up. Let's hope the pendulum steers to swing back.

It should never have come this far.

A simple test, a cheek swab would have stopped him being able to compete but nope, apparently these tests are ‘too intrusive’! Shame on the OC for allowing this shit show to taint the Paris Olympics!

This should never be allowed to happen again in ANY sport.

He should be stripped of his medals and give them to the rightful winners!

2024, when a man can punch a woman, be lifted onto the shoulders of his coach, be applauded and given a gold medal! - everyone who argued for this should hang their heads in shame!