Top Unis - am I missing something?

After I read this message I truly believe she needs a gap year and to apply next year. I felt the same way- totally burned out from working so so hard academically and not really 100% sure what environment I wanted for my next study choice. Once the pressure was off and I took a gap year and made my applications after the summer holidays to reset, I was 100% more sure of what I wanted. Which was a London university. Spent 3 years at UCL. She is right that for some of her choices it will be a lot more work than play and she won’t be the brightest kid in the class anymore. For me, I’d made peace with that and it actually gave me some important life lessons. But she might prefer a university that’s a bit less intense. The best uni is the one she will attend and be happy at. No good getting into Cambridge to drop out after a term due to being miserable. It’s an incredibly expensive mistake to make with student loans.

with her aspirations in the USA she could also apply for scholarships over there too. Or look at a degree programme with a year in Europe.

it sounds like the pressure (that she feels, not from you) needs to be eased and the best way to do that is to defer entry for a year.

the other way to do it is to go through her choices and kind of play a game. Eh if you opened an envelope with a rejection, would you feel sad or relieved or happy. And that can help make the decision for her.

Bloody hell, OP, wind your neck in.

If she doesn't get into Oxbridge she is not too good for Warwick/Bristol/Bath/Exeter.

I'd also bear in mind that she might not want to come home outside the school holidays, in which case travelling to Durham or Edinburgh would be absolutely fine (and indeed many students travel there from much further away than Surrey), and also that she might change her mind about the "campus experience". I wanted to go to Warwick because that's where my boyfriend at the time was and I'd had a great time with him on campus. Luckily I didn't get in and ended up at a city based university with much more going on. I later met some Warwick students on their year abroad who told me they were bored out of their brains on the Warwick campus and that Coventry was a grotty shit hole.

Wow. That's a bold statement! I can't imagine many people preferring the campus at Leicester to Oxford.

Grades are somewhat meaningless when you get to university.
I've seen students with reams of A stars struggle while students with much lower results absolutely fly once at uni.
If, by working hard, your daughter gets A stars then great. Another student may work just as hard and get a B. Clearly, she has an aptitude for the subjects she has chosen and has good teachers to boot. Just because a course has lower entry requirements doesn't mean it's bad or it's pointless to have better grades. Nor does it mean that others on the same course as your daughter will be any less able and successful.

What I would say is that Oxbridge is looking for far more than just top school grades and extracurricular stuff from students. It's great that she wants to aim for that, but you need to be realistic that everyone applying there will have top grades and oodles of extracurricular bumf. What they're looking for can't be measured in a grade or on paper - hence the interview (if one makes it that far).

Equally, the Oxbridge experience really doesn't suit everyone. I know two people who ended up at Manchester University instead of Oxford - one who turned down a place at Oxford and one who hated it and dropped out before starting again here. I also have a good friend who read social and political science at Cambridge and hated the course content and hated the Cambridge experience and wishes she'd gone somewhere else. University is a very personal choice.

Therefore, it's really important that your daughter looks at the course content and has a couple of options that she's really happy with that aren't Oxbridge. Setting her up to view universities that aren't Oxford or Cambridge as inferior or beneath her or for the less capable is a terrible idea - whether she gets into Oxbridge or not.

As for the travel time, Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool, Sheffield are all within two and a bit hours of London. For campus unis, York isn't much further and Warwick and Keele are also not too far, as are UEA and Sussex. All good universities..

Thanks for that, interesting to hear.

I often wonder what it’s like for the kids who go to these prestigious universities on the back of hundreds and thousands of pounds been spent on private schools and/or multiple-subject private tutition, who then meet kids like mine who went to State schools and never had paid-for additional tutoring or Summer schools but ended up with the exact same stellar grades

If they loved their school and made many friends there then they couldn't give a monkeys. It probably means more to the state school kids.

You’re a snob. I got 4 A stars and went to Leicester, because I liked the course and campus more than Oxford.

Course content is generally based on the interests of the academics based at the university. If these don't align with your interests, the course may not be suitable, regardless of the university it is at.

Most academics (particularly at "prestigious" universities") are primarily research oriented and may not be great at teaching. Have a look at the TEF awards. Plenty of "non-prestigious" universities getting the gold award.

Prejudice re what- calling out a parent saying saying no uni other than Oxbridge is good enough and not respecting or leaving her dd to make her own choices or preference for life balance.

We’ll just ignore the prejudice shown towards many good unis shall we.

I don't know how far you are from London trains from Durham to King's Cross can take less than 3 hours and the campuses in Durham Uni are in and just on the outskirts of the city centre so really accessible.

I've been a student at Warwick and Durham, I got far more from Warwick as a student both academically and otherwise. Everyone I knew there got top grades at school and worked incredibly hard to get them.

Durham was similar but with old buildings, posh dinners and robes. I'm not sure those things made it a better Uni though...

DS1 didn't get into Cambridge and is now doing Maths at Durham.

He did meet the offer requirements from Warwick, which he was considering, but felt Durham would offer a better social life, even though the grade requirements were slightly lower.

He's having a fantastic time, it is a long way to travel, but he only comes home in the holidays.

DS2 also wants to do Maths and is Year 13. He's applied to Cambridge and is probably going to make Warwick his second choice. But he is less interested in the social life and very studious. Really hoping he gets into Cambridge.

I had offers from Russell Group unis but wanted to stay near home so I decided on a mid-teir uni instead despite having straight As. I'm now in the civil service and progressing through the grades much quicker than the ones who started at the same time as me from Russell Group unis. It's not always down to where you study but what your personal attributes are

It sounds as if she needs a break. Does she have form for changing her mind about things, is that why she’s worrying about how she might feel next year?

I would echo pp who suggested she looks into having a gap year. She might offer to work in her local MP’s office, volunteer at a local charity, get a job, or go travelling- or a combination of all of them- and potentially reapply to university next year. By then she might feel more secure in knowing what she wants from the experience.

Lots of people change their minds while at uni. Two of my friends changed course within our university and one actually dropped out and started again somewhere else. I looked into switching institutions at the end of my first year- my tutor told me it’s fairly straightforward and they just reflect it on your degree certificate, like BA (Cambs) with first year Warwick, or whatever. It’s not terrible to discover you made a mistake and can usually be corrected.

Getting the best grades she can will be worth it anyway- it’s validation, it looks good on your CV, and it can give her a boost of confidence.

Ok. “Blackpool
college isn’t rag. Just like a very English comprehensive school in uni form.” Is that ok to say too? Thought not.

It’s up to you though to encourage her to fly the best further if she wants the best uni for her and that’s further away.
Saying ‘it’s not up to me’ and ‘ I don’t mind’ isn’t enough.
Kids pick up hugely across all the years of growing up on parents wishes, anxieties and want to please. This happens on both a conscious and unconscious level.
If Durham or or EB is a good fit then why on earth does 5 hours matter? Coming home for a possible birthday or similar really is so inconsequential here. Terms are short and you can each do a visit once a term?

Well, I guess the child’s whole academic career shouldn’t be geared towards the grades as a ‘means-to-an-end’ ie. getting into Oxbridge - but as a journey towards learning and understanding and achieving potential.

I often wonder what it’s like for the kids who go to these prestigious universities on the back of hundreds and thousands of pounds been spent on private schools and/or multiple-subject private tutition, who then meet kids like mine who went to State schools and never had paid-for additional tutoring or Summer schools but ended up with the exact same stellar grades.

I’m proud of my kids for achieving what they achieved. They still didn’t make it to Oxbridge though so are ‘rejects’ in that sense 😂(They’re enjoying Uni life where they’ve ended up though and are surrounded by other rejects, some of whom are definitely more sore about it!)

And being 5 hours away shouldn’t be a barrier to applying to Uni. Is it them or you who don’t like this idea?

Well its very succinct in this case so we will have to agree to disagree.

In my experience, grades are important for internships but someone with good grades AND some kind of work experience in a shop or something, getting involved in societies etc would come out on top. They're already familiar with a working environment

Or life experience. I’d have thought a course with a year in industry or prior experience is worth way more than non relevant Alevel grades.

Do not discount the peace of mind of being the highest scoring student on a course with slightly lower requirements...

Dd came out of one of your disparaged unis with a good first and a major scholars prize alongside a job offer from the multinational sponsor of the prize.

Choose the course, not the uni.

No, it's clear to you because you've chosen to layer some of your own prejudice on to it. Its not clear to me at all.

It’s odd that you write “WE have dismissed” because this should really be your daughter’s decision and an extra couple of hours’ travel is nothing.

Also, entry requirements are minimum requirements. Plenty of courses are vastly oversubscribed at Edinburgh and Durham, so even all A*s won’t guarantee a place. You’re being quite arrogant to assume she can just walk in wherever you eventually decide is good enough!

You’re missing my point. “Rah” as a description is as rude as “chavvy”.