Top Unis - am I missing something?

I kind of see what you mean ie what did she work ridiculously hard for if its to end up in a good but normal uni.

A few relevant points:

1. But equally plenty of people did work ridiculous hard to get into those unis. Some people get into oxbridge without so much work. Some people graduate from oxbridge and are lower on the pay scale than those with no degree or red bricks - no kidding, Ive seen this often. I guess life just isn't fair.

1. Good question- why did she sacrifice so much to the point she wasn't enjoying life? Or if on the other if she was enjoying life why conplain.

1. This knowledge and ability to pass tests will come in handy. She can easily get a 1st elsewhere and will have more time for extracurriculars, work and life.

Your subsequent posts suggest you very much don't like any other uni in this country apart from an Oxbridge choice

Hi OP. I kind of see your point about ABB offers for Politics when she's working hard to achieve all A stars.

My DD was in a similar position with a similar subject application. She didn't really want to go up north (not because of distance, more to do with her perceptions of the cold in the NE)!

She ended up applying to London unis, even though she didn't particularly want to stay in London (because we live there she didn't feel the undergrad experience would be the same).

In the end, she got into Cambridge, but her other offers were Durham (A star A,A), UCL (A star, A,A), LSE (A,A,A) and Bath (A,B,B - lower offer due to EPQ).

If she hadn't got into Cambs, she would have really struggled between LSE and Durham. LSE was second only to Cambs in the Complete Uni Guide and its a globally-renowned institution. On the other hand, Durham (despite the weather!) would have offered more if a campus-type experience and enabled her to get out if London. But it's less known overseas and, it was lower on the league table for her subject.

So what I would say is, don't get too hung up on stated uni entrance requirements. Eg. for DD, Durham was A star, A,A and LSE 'only' A,A,A, but LSE was definitely more competitive entry than Durham for this subject.

In retrospect, probably the best alternative option all round would have been Bath. Even though it is slightly lower offers for social sciences and will drop a grade again for A star in EPQ, it's still higher in the league tables than most RG unis - including Durham in many cases. It's a similar distance to Oxford or Cambridge for most in the SE and a beautiful historic town. OK, the campus is a bit 1960s, but at least it's a campus. For DD's subject these days, Bath is ahead of Durham and the usual RGs like Edinburgh, Manchester etc etc. Has she looked at Bath?

Also, Oxford make humanities offers at A,A,A, even though the reality is nearly all students actually there will have all A stars.

I have seen unis such as Exeter, state A star,A,A as entry grades for some courses - only to then be in clearing with the same course at A,A,B.

So, in summary, have a look at Bath. Also, they really don't come home that much and England is a small country - Durham is not that far. Warwick has more of a STEM reputation and (I think!) the nearest towns are Coventry or Leamington Spa - and even those are a bus ride away.

doesn't want to be in a high-pressure environment and feeling inferior to super-bright students.

If she is 4a* she won't be inferior.

But she should do best she can and go some places with course and campus she likes whether they ask bbb or aaa

She should not assume people with bbb won't be equal to debates and discussion

One other consideration when selecting a university are the employment prospects after graduation. DD attends a university which is not RG, yet is a leader in its field for the subject she is studying and it prides itself on its extremely strong links to industry. Helping students have good internships arranged is also a priority and they have an excellent careers service.

Also being clever at uni and being clever for work/career after are not the same thing. A couple of the very high achievers in my year really struggled out in world of work and settled in academia.

I’m not really clear why you don’t think any of the alternatives are suitable for her…?

Most people don’t go to Oxbridge, even with their 3 A* grades, and go to other excellent universities which are highly competitive and go on into fantastic careers.

At a Durham, Bristol, Warwick etc nearly every student will have similar grades.

I was going to say this. I work in a uni and we get some students who transfer from Oxbridge. If you’re used to being the brightest kid in the room it can be a big adjustment to suddenly be average.

What the hell is wrong with people? How did we get to the stage where some parents believe that universities like Warwick and Durham are not good enough for their dc? This obsession with league tables is so damaging. These universities are full of A* students who will have stellar careers. Stop being neurotic and get a grip.

Sadly, you are coming across as a uni snob.
If your daughter likes one of these 'lower' ones, why not let her go? It's her experience, not yours. She hasn't 'wasted' the time she spent studying, etc. That was good practice for applying oneself to work and tasks.

I think she'll find there are plenty of A* students at other unis. When she gets out into the world, in a wider pool, she'll realise that other people are clever and hardworking, too. A bit of humility doesn't go amiss.
If she (you?) really want her to be on an elite course for elite students, she (you?) will need to choose something super competitive like medicine, architecture or law at a Russell Group uni.
Ultimately, having great school grades gives her free choice so she should choose the place that offers her the best course that matches her interests.

She has to work out what's most important, frequent visits home or the right course. DD chose the right course, at Edinburgh, approx 6.5hrs by train. Never regretted it. The positive is that you have the excuse to visit a lovely city every now and again yourselves!

Sorry I've not RTFT ... from reading your posts OP sounds like quite a lot of people responding can't read or comprehend what you're saying anyway and are answering unhelpfully.

My take is it's worth them doing as well as possible (ie congruent with work-life balance and MH) as an end in itself not just a means to and end. Doing A levels shouldn't just be about a letter on a piece of paper! But, as a means to and end, many employers do look at A levels as well as degrees classification.

Do good grades at school really separate the candidates in applications for internships? Genuine question

I don't know but they might well, particularly for any applied to during yr 1 for the first summer.

She says she has been working hard during secondary school and doesn't want to be in a high-pressure environment and feeling inferior to super-bright students. That she wants to have fun at uni as well as study. When I try to point out gently that people in Oxbridge and LSE too have fun, she says that no, they don't.

Oh yes they do...my dd definitely had fun at Cambridge, and that was doing engineering which is notoriously full on.
I'm afraid your dd is suffering from imposter syndrome (very common, perhaps especially among girls) ... if she's offered a place, that means they think she's bright enough, she's definitely not 'inferior' if she's likely to get four A stars!

She may just be doing that protective thing of downplaying any desire to go there in case she doesn't get an offer, of course. Maybe let the matter rest and see how she really feels if she gets one?

Or she could try for a harvard scholarship etc

@OnTheRoll - why are you so hung up on prestige? It’s so unhelpful to your thinking. There are a great many excellent universities in the UK - not just 3.

I’ve got one in uni and one at the same stage as your DD. Neither were Oxbridge material but my older got offers from a number of good universities which are well recognised in her subject and I expect my younger (similar academic profile) will also.

My older daughter’s lowest offer but one was from her preferred uni and was below her predictions across the board (ABB vs A*AA) but it didn’t cross her mind to take her foot off the pedal. As a PP said, your DD is sounding a bit burnt out. My elder DD got her predicted grades and is surrounded by very able students.

I think you may be putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on your daughter with this focus on what you see as “prestigious” unis. I have a lot of terrific and very able colleagues who did not go to Oxbridge or London and who are doing very well in our high-pressure and demanding work environment. But she sounds on track for Cambridge. I went there and loved it but in fact many of my non-Oxbridge colleagues have progressed further than I have.

Of course you are being ridiculous
She should do the best she can
If she doesn't get into oxbridge a first from one of the other Unis is still a first. Then maybe a ma at oxbridge

She's pushed yourself to know she has done her best, and achieved the best she possibly could. That is a reward in itself.

A friend's daughter got into Oxford, hated it and dropped out. She then went to Keele to do Pharmaceutical Science, and absolutely loved the experience. Don't dismiss the lower unis.

The University of London is a federation of colleges, of differing sizes, locations and expertise. Not all University of London colleges involve commuting to a central London location.

Signed - someone who got straight As at A Level (no A stars in my day) and was very happy at one of the more campus like London University colleges.

One thing DD when younger wanted perfect - perfect grades etc and we spent time explaining that nothing ever is - I work in publishing and no book is published (bible maybe) without minor mistakes - I remember she brought me the special edition Lewis Carroll Alice in Wonderland and yes there were minor errors and thah is fine

I think the value of a Oxbridge education is rather over amped these days and more about parental bragging rights. My DH is a Cambridge grad, works for a FTSE100 company and recruits top candidates from all over the world (Harvard, Yale, the world ranked unis in Europe and, yes, London/Edin/ST Andrews/Bath etc).

When he graduated in the 90’s the HR department had a filing cabinet, one drawer for Oxbridge and one for ‘everywhere else’. They had a preference for ‘top drawer’ candidates, unless a candidate from somewhere else outshone them on the aptitude tests (I was one of those candidates!) Back then, at selection, Oxbridge cared about what else you brought to the table (rowers, cricket, music in my DH’s case), now they just care that you love your subject to the exclusion of pretty much all else and have the grades. They expressly state they don’t care what you do outside of studying, so do not select well-rounded people. The pastoral care at these unis/colleges is very poor and these students are under academic pressure from the second they arrive - fine if you want to go into academics and/or the civil service.

But in my DH’s company now? They actively don’t select Oxbridge - it speaks of an overly academic candidate that is great at book learning but is likely to have less in the way of life skills or street smarts and thus be unable to connect with colleagues and clients, most of whom statistically also haven’t been to an Oxbridge uni. The intensity of the studying regime also means they often arrive with little to no work experience so they can be ‘high management time’ absorbers (my DH’s pet hate).

Tbh I would stop being blinded by historic perceptions of Oxbridge uni (nb. they both slipped to 3rd and 4th in the league tables this year, no doubt not helped by the unrelenting student political posturing of the last few years, which is significant if you are Jewish or not from one of this term’s favoured oppressed minorities). What I would do is look at the league table for the subject she wants to study, consider the careers that she is interested in entering, and then look at the employment stats at 18m and 5 years post graduation to get a sense of how that degree and that institution is valued in the real world within the employment sectors that apply to her.

We’ve actively discouraged our two from even looking at Oxbridge as we genuinely think the degrees in the areas they are interested in are better at other universities (the London ones), even though they won’t get the campus experience that I had at York and Surrey.

My DD went to a RG uni ,about 100 miles away.Still took 3 hours by car and similar by train no biggie! She also found it a bit of a shock at Uni . The first year is very different to A levels I think .She now works in industry earning over 50k!

I got 4 As at A Level (before A star existed) but I wasn't interested in Oxbridge and the course I did (languages at a Russell Group uni) needed 3 Bs. I never felt that it was 'below' my intelligence. Many people on my course had similar grades and some were much more intelligent than me. I was happy and I absolutely loved the uni and the course. I think that's what really matters.

This. Also that learning 'too much,' i.e getting high grades she didn't need, is a waste of time. Surely learning should be for its own sake.

I really don’t think societies, non relevant Alevels or working in a shop is going to get you an internship. Relevant work experience, degree content, life experience, a year in industry as part of your degree…might.

I think you are focussing in the wrong thing. It sounds as if your Dd has always put pressure on herself to do well and get the highest grades and she is now wondering why - why is she sacrificing time and fun to get something that actually if she doesn’t get Cambridge she doesn’t need

Help her find her balance, both myself and DD got if we pushed and worked hard get that but I have always pushed for a balance in terms of grades and social life and the work life bakance

help her find it

It is true. A survey was published a few years ago which gave LSE in particular a terrible report for the quality of its teaching and its pastoral care. Universities which are prestigious because of their research and publication don’t necessarily focus on the quality of teaching.