Top Unis - am I missing something?

Warwick, Bristol, Bath and Exeter are top unis, aren't they?

I went to Durham but I was rejected from Warwick. Offers for both were AAA (old money A Levels so long before A* was a thing but still, the Warwick offer was the same is my point).

My understanding is that Artsy subjects (which would include Politics) often require higher grades than techically harder subjects due to demand. My offers for English Literature were mostly As whereas my sister's offers for a Science were much lower for the same standard of universities (Bs and Cs for St Andrews, Edinburgh and Manchester). Her subject was harder but not as many people wanted to do it so the grades required were less competitive. Maybe it's not the case nowadays though.

Some kids also don't see the point of paying for flights back and forth when they can get a cheap local train. And some enjoy seeing their families.

Being close to your family and enjoying their company doesn't affect your intellectual abilities you know.

Just as an add my DS did joint honours, politics and economics.
A lot of people he knew dropped the economics as it was too hard.
He is at the houses of Parliament today.
He did not go to a RG University.

My DD went to a campus university for her first degree. She didn't enjoy it. She's now at a city University and commutes.

FWIW after the bachelor degrees Oxford sees a drop-off of all highly tutored students. Further study is just too hard or the students have had enough.

I was a council house kid who obtained two Oxford degrees. One Brookes because North Oxford didn't teach my subject at Masters level.
I have a soft spot for both universities.

I'm a little confused as to why you seem to think that all 18 year olds are self sufficient, completely independent, have no SEN or physical disabilities, don't have family members at home who may be ill, never suffer from homesickness or any other myriad reasons why many students do want to go home for the odd weekend

I believe the main thing DD is struggling with is just not being sure what she will feel like next September. How difficult it would be to study further from home. Or how she would feel about commuting to classes in London. She just doesn't know and yet she is supposed to make choices for the next 3 years based on what she is feeling now.

Most of them aren't completely sure.

DD1 had worse AS level results than predicted (40% of A-levels here) so we had to radically rethink where she could apply then with only a few visits left she suddenly wanted to look at a completely different subject area - a better fit I felt - so her ucas application was for two very different courses. She got offers and is now year 2 in the later subject area and loving it - the location and course.

DS been better just before we started open days he decided he may be interested in another subject - so they've manged to look round both departments - he's going with second subject.

Mine are generally excited about next stage - if she not perhaps she need more time before going.

Another reason you and she may be agonising more than is needed us that, if she is as bright as you think, she is likely to go on to masters. Having been responsible for PG admissions myself, I can confidently say that no-one would be selecting applicants from one Russell group uni over another. They would be looking at UG marks profile, statement, interview and references, though Oxbridge might be noticed alongside other considerations. Most PG admissions tutors with any sense would also select a strong applicant from a non-russell group uni with weaker A levels who has clearly thrived and excelled in a uni environment. I really would encourage her to pay more attention to what she thinks she will like and less attention to the ever changing league tables.

Agreed. I'd she wants to go to Oxbridge, good for her. But other universities are available and she may be a better fit for one. I'm currently doing a top up degree at an ex polytechnic university. I was really disappointed that it would no longer be with my local university that is very good. But I've been really impressed with the teaching and the university as a whole. It's been much better than the module I did with the University of.

Sorry if I came across as abrasive but what is it that these YP didn't enjoy about being a student in London? What was so isolating about it?

I do think people need to stop blaming the OP for her daughter's choices and restrictions around where she's prepared to go!

She might just need a year out to reconsider, look around and make calmer decisions.

My dd comes home 3 or 4 times a term.

Not sure why that is anyway relevant.

She's on for a first and has started getting grad job interviews. She also has a boyfriend, a busy social life and she's on a sports team.

She loves coming home to see her siblings and dogs and we love having her.

Mumsnet is full of very cold parents.

The offer days they run in spring of yr 13 if she gets an offer can be a great way to decide. They are more in detail than open days and the teens usually go off and have sample lectures etc. We stayed overnight and had a really good look at uni, accommodation, city. I said to dc can you see yourself here for 3/4 years.

I wonder if your daughter should think about a gap year if she is that uncertain? It would give her time to reassess her choices over this year and evaluate exactly what she wants to do.
She may also be able to defer her place, if she wants to.

Hi there,
For perspective: My DD got as far as an interview at Cambridge, HOWEVER it wasn't her first choice - she wanted London (UCL) because the course content and professional recognition was the best (in her opinion). She also wanted the city social life and friendships, and would only be living about an hour or so from us.
UCL has Halls, a Student Union bar and plenty going on. DD did not miss out because there wasn't one huge campus.
I'd get your DD to check out the course content of her preferred Unis before she makes a decision.

Of course they shouldn't. But some people really get a kick out of it

Christ.

An odd problem. I have a few points to add, I'm from Cambridge, dull fenland market town that it is, its not a campus no matter what the University think. The colleges are tiny so not campuses either smaller than some boarding schools, and at least one, Emmauel is actually part of the bus station.
Secondly much as I despise LSE I'm pretty sure they do politics and they are a sort of campus and their halls are really near by, or at least some of them are, I had to share a hall with them. I went to UCL, two of my pals got firsts and they are both professors so I think you can be super smart and not go to oxbridge.
And thirdly Mary Beard taught at KCL before she went back to Cambridge, she said the calibre of the students and what they asked and wrote was exactly the same. Which is obviously what you would expect.
However it's always nerve wracking, big life changes, I guess all you can do is what you are doing which is supporting her. My clever pals from UC said that where you get your first degree isnt as important and where you do your PhD at least I think that's what they said, I went off to be a secondary school teacher.

I am not going to comment on your agony over university choices apart from saying that your DD needs to learn about the concept of trade offs. Especially important in politics. May be a gap year is a good idea.

I will comment about internships/jobs - it absolutely doesn’t matter if she is getting a degree in politics from Oxford/LSE/Warwick ot Bath. It’s all about hundreds of soul destroying psychometric tests, job simulation, one way video interviews, assessment centres etc. Towards the end when you actually get to meet a human, it’s about fit/personality/pesonal charisma. But certainly not about university or A levels. As long as you meet the minimum requirements of course - which is usually 2:1 from an RG and decent A levels. Does a first from Oxford help? Pergaps, especially if you apply to law. But it’s not a differentiator. Depending on what she wants to do a politics degree might be of dubious value.

I believe the main thing DD is struggling with is just not being sure what she will feel like next September. How difficult it would be to study further from home. Or how she would feel about commuting to classes in London. She just doesn't know and yet she is supposed to make choices for the next 3 years based on what she is feeling now.

But all prospective Uni students could say that, you could go to all the open days, offer days and read about the course in detail and it is still a leap of faith for all of them. The fact that your DD is really struggling with this says to me (and clearly a few other PPs) that she is not ready for Uni and would benefit from taking a year out.

And you're clearly being snobby and don't understand how the Uni offer system works. Whilst the likes of Maths and Astrophysics may require high grades in subjects like Maths and F Maths to actually keep up with the work (because it's bloody difficult) I think the majority of Uni courses with high grade requirements ask for those grades because the courses are so popular and oversubscribed (especially in the RG ones) that they can attract people with those grades.

It's always interesting to compare the required grades on websites with the grades required for the same course at the same Uni in clearing.

My DD wants to do linguistics with a language at Lancaster which is rated 3rd in the CUG after Oxford and Cambridge, so you do need to dig down and not assume that the famous RG ones are the automatic choice. Crucially, my DD is excited about going, it hasn't even occurred to her whether other people there will be more or less clever than her. The fact that your DD is worried about this would be a concern for me.

If she wants to study "politics" I don't see it makes much difference where she goes - it isn't a proper subject. She might as well do "journalism" or "gender studies" anywhere.

At least with PPE it's a broader subject - although I'm not convinced about the "E" bit.

(And I speak as a graduate of the London School of Economics and Political Science - of which the last two words at least are oxymoronic...)

It was millennia ago, but I got turned down for a job with the Post Office because, although I had a first, I didn't get any As in my A levels. (Dodged a bullet, in retrospect!)

But has she enjoyed the courses or has she resented the hard work?

@hydriotaphia theres agonising and then there’s being whiny because the ‘best’ options aren’t right on her doorstep

We are in SE so decided not to go for Durham/Edinburg as the travel is just too much, 5+ hours, and she would not be able to come home more than once a term. She would very much prefer a campus experience rather than a city uni which rules out LSE/UCL in London.

Students don't normally come home during term and it would be a mistake to encourage her to keep popping home to you. She certainly won't be expected to go home at all during an Oxbridge term (which is shorter, so they're expected to work harder). Oxford and Cambridge are city universities, not campuses.

She sounds like she may benefit from a gap year. Work/travel/volunteer/learn to drive and have chance to think about what she wants.
Have you looked at Queens Belfast? Becoming more popular with GB students as it’s affordable (all GB get £3000 scholarship yr1) and easy cheap flights from uk, some interesting politics modules.
Mine is enjoying yr1 politics and common law in Glasgow - several southern English kids in her friend group. Flight or direct train to London. All seem to have top grades - again they pay £1000 scholarship for rest of uk to students with top grades.

Should grownups really be insulting a seventeen year old as lazy etc for agonising over a university choice?