To think all of these people can afford children they just don't want them

Although actually older children are much harder to find places for, so maybe this should be encouraged.

Oh absolutely. I guess I meant before they made any decisions about waiting that ultimately backed them into a corner they didn't want to be in.

They’d never get approved with that attitude.

’I’ll take a cheap one thanks’ 🤦‍♀️

And what is inherently wrong with wanting a better lifestyle over children? It’s a perfectly valid life choice that more people now are deciding to make, it’s better than people having kids they don’t want and can’t afford.

The one who is willing to adopt a child once they've finished the main childcare needs annoys me.

Yep! Amazing isn’t it. They’ve spent loads on experts to work out why people don’t want kids (or as many kids) as previous generations, they could have got the answer for free on here!!

Seriously, who can genuinely afford to both pay nursery fees and also have a standard of living that’s higher than when you were a student? Why would anyone do that more than once, or at all?? Especially if you have to put 15 years into your career first and then as a woman, see that investment trickle away while you’re in the early years trenches.

Correct. For some. And more power to them.

DP and I are on track to put £100K into savings this year. We have a beautiful home filled with love and laughter. Why the hell would I set all that on fire with a baby-shaped clusterfuck.

People who live in London can't win unless they're loaded or live in social housing. If you complain about rent/mortgage costs, it's 'well just move out of the SE' (never mind whether your industry actually exists outside the SE, and if it doesn't, whether you can work remotely). And then when you move, you're pushing up prices for people in Yorkshire or Gloucestershire or wherever. And if you stay in London, you're gentrifying because you rent somewhere where a Gail's has just opened and you sometimes think it might be nicer if the high road was a bit less stabby.

Plus improved social care for the elderly.

The average age of motherhood has been steadily increasing, putting the squeeze on being a carer for one generation up and one generation down at the same time.

It's absolutely rife atm.

Ah another thread pitting those with children against those without.

If they give that as a reason they want to adopt to any Uk agency they’ll be promptly shown the door. It’s an absolutely ridiculous and incredibly naive reason to want to adopt.

So as a country we need cheaper housing and more affordable childcare ?

@AlertCat assuming he has student loans, a nursery place in London could easily set him back 2/3 of his £53k salary each month.

Before he’s paid for anything else.

I'm on just over £50k it's just enough for me and I just couldn't afford a family home in London my job is here.

It's all well and good when others are saying just move out of London the Southeast and Southwest but then it were just simply push-up house prices in the north so then they'll also become unaffordable which is kind of what is happening in Manchester

Even ten+ years ago when I had pre school kids the thought of managing childcare made me cry. I had to put my entire salary, which was about the national average at the time, into our bills account to cover bills including childcare (and mortgage which was less onerous than many people's). But I was extremely privileged to still own my first home that I was letting out (having bought a place with my DH) so I had some money to myself.

With how much more everything costs now it is a very hard choice for even decent earners, certainly in London/SE. I am already thinking about how I might help our kids if they want to have children of their own because unless either of them has kids with someone with a City salary or has one themselves (unlikely), it's going to be a challenge. I am expecting I will have to have a conversation with them to say 'If you ever want kids but are worried about affording it, please tell us so we can see how we can help' And we're pretty comfortably off.

Is it by force for people to have children?🤣

How many more threads like this today? 🤔

When I was 20, people with kids put them in nursery so they could have holidays abroad and 2 cars. By the time I was 35, people needed two incomes to afford to maintain a really quite low-key lifestyle. Being a SAHP became something that people could only afford if they were on tax credits (as it was then) or one partner had a higher income. And the tax credit person would be scrimping!

Now, things are even worse. While £53K sounds a lot, in London and the south generally (I can’t speak for the other parts of the country) it won’t go far at all. And it’s true that renting is very insecure, especially if you’re on an ordinary income. I’m not sure I’d want that and have children. Where I live, on local FB groups I see people posting all the time that they’ve been given notice on their flat… they’ve got 8 weeks… 4 weeks… etc. Not all private rentals will accept children (even fewer take pets) and getting social housing is almost impossible. Were I doing it now, I don’t think I would. There’s climate change too, that’s a worry I don’t think I would want to impose on my dc if I were deciding again to have or not to have.

But OP isn't talking about you?

As for the article, I think the people who want to adopt children once they're old enough to be past the expensive childcare stage are ridiculous. "We want the kids when we think they'll be cheaper".

As long as nobody then moans about immigration, then its all good.

Everybody sacrifices something when they have kids. Nobody (maybe those on benefits) is going to have more money from having kids as they cost money .......

I don't believe that money is the only reason for most of those couples. If they wanted it enough they'd make it work- move somewhere cheaper, try and develop their career, cut back on lifestyle etc.

We are getting wheeled out from job to crematorium by the time millenials will get to old age.

This is silly.

‘if they really wanted children they’d abandon their lives, friends, careers and families - to move to a cheap part of the country and live in rental accommodation on less than minimum wage topped up by UC’.

And - great you can raise 3 kids on £70k joint income, but there’s parts of the country that’s just not realistic now. When you were able to buy a house and access to childcare are major factors.