Taking bets... Keir Starmer or Kemi Badenoch?

Kemi will last about 18 months

Labour in for at least a decade

There's also David Cameron, who was party leader of the Conservatives for over 10 years (2005 to 2016) and was arguably the catalyst for the shower of absolute shit that has been British politics for the better part of the last decade.

Nicola Sturgeon led the SNP for almost 10 years too.

Long-serving leaders aren't the thing of the past that the post before refers to!

As far as I can see the idea that his dad owned the factory came from a diary entry in which he mentioned keir having a summer job in 'my' factory. Now I know I've referred to ds as doing work experience in 'my' school and I definitely don't own the school. Even if he did own it, we can be pretty certain it wasn't some massive corporation - more like small business and therefore definitely not someone with broad shoulders who could be considered privileged, according to most non Labour supporters on here.

She's seemingly learned nothing from the election defeat.

@mrshoho "I'm disappointed with Starmer already. The 'toolmaker' references can't be erased."

Why should they be? Preferable to the child of a gp and a professor saying she "became working class" when she had a summer job in McDonalds......

How many times did he have to remind us his father was a tool maker. I'm sure he thought this would endear us to his working class childhood. Was there not some question as to whether his Dad owned the factory?

Going by her dreadful performance on LK this morning very much KB.

They certainly do and with good reason. I was struck at people's lack of awareness of how widespread rioting and civil disorder is treated by the courts.

But then I'm in NI, so I'm maybe more used to it than yous'uns.😆

The 'toolmaker' references can't be erased.

Why should they be?

I did factor it in, it won't save her. But then she is not seen as as a long term prospect within the party anyway.

I thought it off of CCHQ to announce the change yesterday. Nothing says "We are confident in our new leader" like changing the rules wrt VONC. They should have allowed her her moment.

Out of the two I currently have a higher opinion of Reeves than Starmer. She's right in the firing line but doesn't appear to be phased by the criticism. I'm disappointed with Starmer already. The 'toolmaker' references can't be erased.

I'm also a fan of streeting.

Starmer will last longest IMO.

Mostly because the Tory's still haven't found their parties place and are still chasing the reform votes.

We are a centric country in general. Always have been.

Of the Torys went back to their one nation roots I think it would be a shoe in win.

However that won't be whilst the likes of Badenoch and Braverman et Al are dominating their policies.

I have voted for both major parties, pretty evenly split

And the ratings show many others feel the same as I do anyway. Maybe not so much on mn but there's a lot of pro Starmer posters

Yes, but you don't fall into the 'don't have deep political allegiances on either side' category, do you, @EasternStandard ?

Who knows his personal ratings are very low so I can't see there's much love there, and he used to be billed as 'boring' in focus groups but that switched to 'liar' at freebie gate time

I find him worse than dull in terms of delivery, in that I can't listen to either of them anymore, just the voices are enough. But also the content. Easier just to skip

Isn't the consensus on Starmer that he is dull? People may not warm to him and Reeves, but I don't think many people (those who haven't got deep political allegiances one or the other already) find them deeply unpleasant in the way Kemi so often presents herself.

Do people warm to Starmer and Reeves these days?

Maybe it will depend on how good her PR assistants are. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair did quite a lot on that aspect, where BJ does nothing because he genuinely cannot understand why anybody wouldn’t love him at sight and forever. Maggie had her whole image remodelled, including her voice.

Agree with all of this. She came across more like a secondary school teacher rather than the leader of the Conservative Party. Her condescending tone was annoying.

She came across as incredibly arrogant on LK this morning. Partygate was overblown because the laws were wrong in the first place, the welfare state needs cutting, Rachel Reeves being chancellor is no big deal...I'm sure it played well to those who like her already, but I can't see her winning many people over based on her performance today.

I do think PMQs will be interesting. I predict that Starmer will find Badenoch difficult to deal with-she's quite chaotic and he's a straight down the line thinker.

The Tories seem to put a woman into a position of power when the shit is hitting the fan then drop her like a hot brick when the storm has passed. It seems to me their strategy is to use a woman to distance themselves from the bad times and failures and then slide an old Etonian into place when there's glory to be had. See Truss, May, Allegra Stratton etc.

That's where Kemi is now I reckon.