Taking bets... Keir Starmer or Kemi Badenoch?

I thought it was excellent, lots of people do.

Because this isn't the last Labour government, and nothing they've done so far is filling me with confidence.

The budget was ideological, arrogant and bombastic, so I'm presuming that sets the tone for the next couple of years.

I'm glad you clarified what you meant by women's rights. Given the awful spew she gave about maternity rights. Shs is hardly waving the flag for women.

We all know we aren't going to see any meaningful change in the NHS and education.

Do we? We saw massive improvements in the NHS the last time we had a Labour government, why would we assume this one is any different?

Small businesses, like ours, employ almost 70% of the UK workforce.

That isn’t true. Over 30% of the workforce is employed in public services, then you get hoards of massive companies like Amazon, Tesco….

This.

We all know we aren't going to see any meaningful change in the NHS and education.

And they haven't even started concreting over the countryside yet, which will be another deeply unpopular move, particularly now Angela Rayner has of course watered down her grand plan and is now letting developers have carte blanche to build as many shitty four bedroom executive homes as they like without any affordable housing.

If they improve the NHS that will help Labour at the polls. But if they damage the economy they will just be another Labour government - tax and tax and tax and suffocating any growth. The inheritance tax on farmers is one to watch and increasing the costs of private education and university fees will only help them if the alternatives are good. We will see I guess. But so far they are looking like wrenching squeezing covetous old sinners as regards farmers and education, and hypocritical and corrupt on the freebies front.

I think it will be refreshing to have someone say what they actually think rather than weasel and smooth their way into people's good books.

Maybe then we can start to look at policy rather than personality. FWIW I don't think Wilson, Thatcher or Blair would have survived the social media/instant gratification era we now live in.

2 v 1 cos I will vote for her too

Keir Starmer will not be PM in a couple of years time. After he’s finished off what’s left of the economy, that is. The other socialists will come for more money, he won’t know how to respond and he’ll be gone.

I can't see either taking their parties into the next election. Kemo will blow up over something and Kier will be death by a thousand cuts and fall further out of step with his party.

I think people want more from a political leader than someone who calls them names to their faces.

Here's the wiki page on Nigerian politics. It isn't exactly something I want for our democracy. I could also see how Nigel Farage could use Kemi's "Nigerian outlook" to further split the right wing vote.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Nigeria

It can be important at some points in the electoral cycle, but agree it isn't now. We're not at that point. Also, Starmer never had as much of a personal vote as some leaders do. So it matters less. I think a lot of people are fine with a bit of 'dull' for now, it'll depend on his record once he's been in long enough to do anything significant about the big issues.

2 tier Keir won’t last till the next election as he is so hated.

It's Keir

KB appears to be her own worst enemy. Reportedly she's hot tempered and volatile, but she brings something very new to UK politics. A Nigerian outlook, that's much more direct and confrontational. As she is now Leader, the MPs willl need to decide whether to trust her.

What is a "Nigerian outlook" @Papyrophile?

I don’t think it’s particularly important to most voters who the leader is. The most important issue to voters before the election was the NHS. If this government can get waiting lists down, keep its promises on increasing GP appointments and get more NHS dentists into the system it will be well on its way to a second term. A five year record of achievement which is perceptible to voters will go a very long way, regardless of the “dullness” or otherwise of the leader.

Well, Badenoch was in Govt, the electorate could have had her back again but rejected her and the rest of them.

The recent poll, just one, had the Tories and Labour both in the mid 20s, thats not a huge amount of the electorate at all.

Kemi, simply by dint of the positions they're both in. Starmer has a vast structural advantage.

If their time in opposition is the same as last time the Tories were kicked out, then Badenoch will last about 12 to 18 months.

They ve had 5 PM's/Leaders in 8 years and that was whilst IN power.....

They are a split party, with a very small base in Parliament, too many factions and very few centralists, with few if any, natural allies in the 'commons.

Pundits have often said Brexit would destroy the Tories and i think that has come to fruition.

Its 5 years until the next GE, there will be huge turmoil in the UK & beyond in that time & it might start on Tuesday if Trump wins........

Then who is the leader of a small party in Parliament really wont matter.

Labour will do one term and Kemi will be the next prime minister. She's the direct opposite of KS which a huge amount of the electorate want now: and will want much much more in 4 years time.