Taking bets... Keir Starmer or Kemi Badenoch?

Then you'd know the French are taxed substantially more than we are, as are business & no they are not happy paying these taxes either.

But you don't, you just parrot the usual "I want a Euro system..." rubbish.

the NHS is judged to be a lot more efficient than the French system too, it just the UK tax payer, refuses to pay more into the pot.... and when forced too, turns on the Govt of the day.... as your proving admirably.

I know an OT, she has a young stroke patient (severe) this person would have received 1yr of therapy, because of cuts to care/lack of staff, she will get 6 weeks... thats what the Tories have done to Healthcare.

Preventative??? don't make me laugh, look what happened when a smoking ban proposed? media/tory supporters aghast! "how dare they take away our freedoms"

On the NHS, I have a friend who works in clinical commissioning. She says the biggest waste of money in the NHS is on missed appointments. I'd like to see that tackled as a priority, along with remodelling GP and dentistry services which have not kept pace with population changes and expectations over the years. Increased management of GP services by Trusts is a must. I think we can learn a lot from other European countries, but bringing in more bureaucracy and insurance models will not fix it.

You cannot compare the UK today to back when Labour were last in charge. There's millions more people for a start, plus we have had covid and Brexit since then, plus the problem of small boat crossings.

Money to see a GP reimbursed by insurance or the state.

So adding in more bureaucracy will improve healthcare? The biggest problem with the NHS is there’s already too much bureaucracy, adding more is like trying to put a fire out with petrol.

How bizarre that you'd assume I don't know how it works.

The French health care system is excellent. Money to see a GP reimbursed by insurance or the state. Businesses can pay, but as they see the money being used wisely, and as their own experiences are so good, they are less distrustful of paying into the insane black hole of the NHS.

Also more preventative health culture - and more emphasis on keeping weight down!!

You ve obviously no idea of how the so called european health model works or how many different models they have do you?

How can people on the UKs overall low wages afford co payments or insurance and euro models rely on high employer contributions .... & we are are all moaning about business being asked to pay a very small amount more.

Streeting needs to get on and find the £4 billion that is required to fund NHS Dentistry.

I think the sensible plan is to change the things that aren’t working. The GP and dentistry delivery models, the silo working between different organisations, the outdated IT systems, the list is endless. The last thing that’s needed is a change in the funding model that won’t make care any better for a single patient. If you want health insurance, there are already plenty of providers.

This is what's wrong with the voting base. The most important issue should be the economy. It has limped along since Brown and 2008. It took forever to regain levels and then was hit again by the double whammy of Covid and Brexit.

Without a productive, dynamic economy generating growth and income, this country is never going to thrive. A robust economy would deliver funds to input into healthcare, education etc,

KB's first PMQs will be interesting to watch though.

I think the sensible plan is to start charging for part of it, as they do in other European countries, or bring in insurance.

If Labour did either of these things I'd be delighted. But I suspect we'll all be paying and paying and paying to keep the same sub standard service that we have now.

We haven’t seen the plan for the NHS and won’t until the Spring. Of course it’s under consultation, that’s how the best and most innovative ideas are gleaned. I honestly don’t understand the impatience, surely it’s better to have considered, properly thought through policies than knee jerk crowd pleasers? And they haven’t had 14 years - the NHS has deteriorated beyond recognition since 2010, with covid escalating that.

I've said this before on these threads, but Labour mismanaging the economy more than the Tories is a complete fallacy if you seek out independent analysis - even accounting for the fact that Tories have spent more time in power than Labour. The UK economy generally fares slightly better under Labour governments over the past several decades. Yes, there has been very bad on both sides. But the 'Tories are better with the economy' narrative is a false one.

I shall judge this government at the end of its term, based on evidence and not speculation.

Give me safe, boring Starmer any day. Where has characterful, populist politics got us? Badenoch is a lurch to the right. Centrist Labour and Tory parties win elections. Keir is accused of being too right wing by his own party, and too left wing by armchair pundits. So he's probably got it about right.

Kemi lost me with the maternity pay comments.

They had FOURTEEN years to work out a sensible plan. So far it's been gimmick after gimmick.

Yes it's a shame he's gone weird (weight loss jabs and job coaches).

Wes DID have sensible ideas pre election now its all gimmicks and consultations. Starmer has either put the brakes on him or he was lying. Why consult, we all know nhs needs reform and Labour have had long enough to plan. They'll end up throwing billions down the NHS black hole again.

Nope not anti business but having seen the impact of business being put first above all else( disastrous Brexit policy aside) I’ve lived with the impact. Time for a new focus and I’d say let’s give labour 14 years the same as the Tories had as opposed to 4 months before we judge.

Because this isn't the last Labour government

What kind of reason is that? This government is using the same advice and experience that brought about massive change, it’s promising much needed reform. Did Sunak’s government fill you with confidence?

So you are anti-business?

It might be worth pointing out to you that the large 'rich' businesses will barely feel this budget, and that, exactly the same as the Tories, Labour haven't dared to tax them more. In fact, Labour have been actively supporting their gambling paymasters.

I wouldn't mind seeing a resurge of the Tory centrists, but I think KM and her ragged band will be going for the Reform vote. It's a shame the Lib Dems aren't more attractive as a party.

OMG LOL WTF !!!!

I personally think that Keir Starmer is easily pushing 50, just amongst us.

Absolutely this. She couldn’t even do the LK show on Sunday without saying something vile.

No just somebody who has lived under a Tory government the past 14 years and seen the huge damage they cause to anybody other than their mates, the rich and their businesses.

This is spot on.

Cleverly has gone to the back benches to bide his time.

And running public services into the ground whilst protecting your business interests and mates has ceased to be a vote winner. We all know what we will return to - multiplied!!!! Just look at Kemi’s cabinet. Priti Patel and Mel Stride.🤣

Yes I suppose some weren't affected by it. Anyone who genuinely thought it was excellent must be living under a rock or working in the public sector with no business sense.