To wonder if you are against private schools…

maybe communism is the way to go?🤐

I went to private school. Categorically not worth it in my opinion. My friends who went to state school all left with a much better work ethic than my private school friends and have secured much better jobs as a result. Facilities were good if you were good at sport (I wasn’t) but I truly don’t think the teaching was any better or I gained anything from it that I couldn’t have gained from state school. I have no interest in sending DC’s to private school.

There should be no private schools. All schools should provide the best possible education. The quality of your education should not depend on how much money you have and children of all parts of society should mix together. Look at countries like Finland, they manage it.
I don´t understand how anyone can support a system with private schools to be quite honest.

*unmanageable bullying

@Unsrr thank you for this thread. It is the first example I’ve seen of a curious and polite discussion of this topic
My DC attends a private secondary school. This was not planned but a sudden move after unmanaged (by school) and unmanageable (due to SEND) in yr 7. Rurally it the private school was the only option. We are one of the families who cannot afford it (16 yr old car anyone) but sacrifice and borrow to meet our child’s needs. The VAT may be unamanagable. I’m afraid.
However I can see the argument for having a single system. BUT this is not the way to achieve it.
I wonder if a single Ed system (without faith schools too) would give greater equality of prospect to children. As you say schools will be different and house prices will determine entrance to some better schools. But at least it would be more even. BUT to achieve this would take decades as the state sector would need to be fully funded to level up, rather than the current sudden levelling down. This is equivalent to the Tories closing SureStart, hitting kids most.
what makes me really angry is this Gov show more respect to the Vaping industry giving them 2 yrs to adjust before VAT, but kids get no time to prepare for a major disruption to their education. Disgusting

So what makes the private so attractive that private is aspired to by many, that's what state need to get to grips with.

Behaviour policy that's workable, behave badly in private, they're out, it's up to parents to sort, not local authority, smaller classes generally but not always, so more facilities, teaching staff, curriculum to stretch, not working at slowest pace, but support for slower learners.
Expectations in class for socially bottom and top, judging, that as having non achieving in life parents means child can't be very bright and capable.

Extracurriculars, how to provide the same to Jay from dad working at Tesco, mum in home care on UC top ups and Hugh whose consultant surgeon parents can afford, music, drama, sport etc..
Schools catering for different talent, like sport (Millfield,), Drama RADA, Music Purcell do..
Wider provision of state boarding for those currently needing boarding. The provision of state SEN schools would need expanding.

One size doesn't and never will fit all.

And what kind of state school do your kids go to? What's it's GCSE pass rate? The FSM ,%? What are the behaviour and exclusion figures like? What sort of kids do you have? Are they reasonably bright and socially confident? Decent looking or sporty? I totally agree that most state schools can be fine for many many kids. Bit not all of them and not all kids. Until the state is prepared to fund and support the kinds of small, pastorally strong, non selective place my kids go to, I have no choice but to drive myself into debt to pay fees.

Who wants to mix with badly behaved kids? Does anyone, except other badly behaved kids?

If you don’t think snobbery exists in state schools you obviously didn’t go to mine. I was bullied and taunted because I lived on a council estate. This was a state comp!

You keep saying how is paying for private school different to buying a house near a good state school. The difference is completely ideological.

Look at the history of state schools vs private schools. The elite sent their children to these private paid institutions before most of the population had access to any education. Schools for poor children were set up with a curriculum that prepared them for a lifetime of hard labour, factories etc. You still see these differences rooted in the systems today, we haven't escaped them.

The rich elite still send their children to the 'right' schools in order to mix with the 'right' people, make connections that will benefit them their whole lives and keep the wealth among people of their own ilk.

The fact that some people have been fooled into thinking our society is a meritocracy because a few more middle class people can send their kids to private school if they work hard does not erase the elitism built into the private system.

I am for them. Probably in the minority with that.
I am also pro grammars, having been grammar educated myself.

Yes, exactly — does that poster not understand the term ‘ideology’? I’m ideologically opposed to private schools. We have plenty of money and could send DS to a private school, but never considered it for a moment. Those two statements aren’t in any way at odds, unless you’re labouring under the delusion that people opposed to private schools are only so because they can’t afford them. Private education is ethically indefensible.

I went to one, I am against them because they create inequality. They are about more than just education, they are about buying privilege and separation for your children (from the poor… errherrrm… I mean, badly behaved other children and their families). Anyone who says otherwise is lying because the reality makes them feel bad

It's not unearned though is it? Their parents didn't just pluck the money tree dry

This.

Children from poorer backgrounds are already at a massive disadvantage.

Many do. They aren't all academically selective and outside of the SE they have a much greater mix of "types". Living costs are lower so people on a decent professional salary, not six figures can afford it. Ill not apologise for removing my kids from the state school that couldn't meet their needs or protect them from the thugs that bullied and terrorised them. I'm quite happy for them not to have to "integrate" with them thanks. The now go to school with kids from all over the world..a far greater mix than the homogenous, almost entirely white comp they came from.
I still haven't seen a defence of the postcode house price issue. Please can someone explain why that is somehow morally acceptable but fees are not? Why should the gov not say, impose a 20% tax on the purchase price of any house within catchment of an outstanding school, or one whose FSM % is below x.

The prejudice is amazing!

Interestingly, your hideous state school in Bristol was probably so bad because Bristol has a huge number of private schools compared to the rest of the country (although I think a couple have since converted to state schools). I think this is partly because when Bristol abolished grammar schools, the Bristol grammars became private schools instead of comprehensives.

A lot of people sending their children to private schools meant that the remaining schools (which were originally the secondary moderns) became more challenging in terms of intake, which itself then pushed more Bristol parents into the private sector.

So your crap schooling was partly the fault of the existence of private schools.

This. I went to a private school until I got into a grammar aged 13. I'm actually more anti the grammar system these days.

Where I live you have silly house prices in the catchment area for the primary school considered the best in the area, mostly middle class parents with money buy the houses, it creates this strange bubble in my opinion. The kids get a place at
the outstanding primary and come year 4
the parents all have the money to start weekly tutoring for their child to be taught the test -and most end up passing the 11 plus and going to the local grammar schools. They're full of kids from this one area.

I think this inequality feels worse to me because the parents with more money are able to play the system.

The people I know who sent their DC to private were the least involved parents and spent the least amount of time with them even when they were day pupils due to a combination of long days and au pairs. The DC were termly boarding by age 13.

A friend of DS1 visited in 'exeat' and I was shocked by the tales of drinking and smoking and drug taking (they were 11 - he boarded early) and off the scale swearing.

They are feral in a different, entitled way. Lots of looking down on 'inferiors'. But can be very polite and good mannered when the situation requires it. Good training for Oxbridge and the Bullingdon club and future careers. Nothing to do with teaching standards.

I am against them because they are unfair.

Yes this too. My dc education is my priority and I just won't accept it being compromised by disruptive children for any reason. It horrifies me when I read posts on here about what some kids have to put up with.

Apologies, I haven’t RTFT, but I find these threads really interesting and noticed the direction was going the way it usually does for the first few posts re equality and access to high quality services for all. I agree with all that totally, but my contribution to the discussion is related to those who need private schools for other reasons, like military families and I’m sure they are not the only group. Having a stable education abd group of friends is the reason there are allowances for military kids to go to private school because they offer boarding facilities. This just isn’t an option with state schools. If we were to get rid of private schools, how will you offer this facility for people who need a boarding provision? I lived in Germany for 3 years and sent my child to the local English speaking private school because we were not (and didn’t have the ability to become) a German speaking family. I guess my point is, private schools offer facilities to cater for edge cases so it is right they exist. But clearly they need paying for and must survive as a business. I am not making a comment on VAT. Just I feel they should exist.

But what’s wrong with ideology, everyone is aligned to different ideologies! I am like the poster you have quoted, could afford private, wouldn’t dream of it. I actively want my children to mix with and relate to kids of all socioeconomic levels and backgrounds, because I believe this is good for them as a human being. I don’t see how that is bizarre.

This is not something to be proud of!

How does it? The rich parents are still paying into the system