To wonder if you are against private schools…

In an ideal world this would be the case but within the state system there’s vast differences between schools…. largely dependant on area. VAT on private schools will increase house prices in areas that have good schools even more. This also seems unfair. As is all the other consequences of this policy. I feel very sorry for the children that will suffer as a consequence and those people (not just teachers but support staff) that have or will loose their jobs when schools close. I doubt there will be much if any net gain to this policy given all the negative effects. It’s more divisive politics, pitting people against each other and I’m sick of it.

But in a perfect system you wouldn't need to go private. You shouldn't need to. That's my point. The two tiers should not exist. There should be no need for private.

Yes, in principle, I think they shouldn’t exist.

Would I send DD to one - yes, of course, because I don’t live in an ideal world, I live in the real world.

I’m aware that’s hypocritical but there you go.

Your post really nails it. The VAT on school fees is based on spite and envy, which your post drips with.

The figure bandied about varies. 4% is the Scottish figure about 6% overall. It makes no difference to the funding of the state sector.

Exactly! And not everyone going to be a lawyer, doctor or engineer either but we need an educated population - not least because a lot of the children in school now will become parents themselves and responsible for helping with the education of the next generation.
Let private schools keep spitting out yet more banker wankers going to work in mummy and daddy’s firm that won’t stop, but for god sake let’s educate the future carers, nurses, entrepreneurs, teachers, builders, tradespeople etc too - the ones who actually add to our society not just take take take

I have yet to see this 'private school network' that gets trotted out in threads like this or to experience it myself. What has going to private school done for me other than help me go through education from 11-16 without changing schools. It's not given me a leg up in my career, it's not helped me get some high flying job. In fact I spent a lot of my life being thoroughly ashamed of it because people judge on their perceived ideas of private school. Just like you are.

Everyone uses their contacts for work experience not just parents of privately educated children. Someone approached me at work as his son wanted to do work experience.

The VAT from those 4% won't cure the problems in the state sector. It's driven by spite, envy and class hatred.

I think it's 7% but, either way, that 7% can't solve the problems of 93%. Why people with millions who send their kids to state schools aren't being asked to cough up to fund the education they are actually using, is beyond me.

Exactly if you (general you, not you in particular) are of such refined moral sensibilities that you won't use private education you shouldn't be touching private healthcare with a barge pole.

Aside from that - private schools aren't the reason that lots of state schools aren't good

That's the real issue 4% of parents will be paying VAT. The schools will charge VAT but will now be able to claim back all the VAT on equipment, food, fuel, repairs and maintenance, wi fi, etc, etc, which they currently can't.

The VAT from those 4% won't cure the problems in the state sector. It's driven by spite, envy and class hatred.

My children don’t go to private school - I said I could afford it. I choose not to use it.

But accessing private health care does have an impact too - it means privileged people can opt out and not advocate for a better system so NHS patients end up with systems which aren’t great and have significant waits but there’s less of a demand for change.

Everything???? Love, nurturing,kindness,stability, these are some of the things that money can't buy

Money doesn't buy everything, but it sure helps lots of things. I'm currently working two jobs and my children are feeling the impact. I'm very stressed and much less available than I used to be. If I had more money and only needed just the one job, that wouldn't be the case. So I'm afraid yes, the life any child is largely predicated on family money.

Aside from that - private schools aren't the reason that lots of state schools aren't good. The reason for that is chronic underfunding and under resourcing over a sustained period of time. Neither of which has anything, at all, to do with private schools.

I don’t know anyone who could afford to move closer to a state school. I know a couple that are very close to becoming billionaires that sent all their kids to state schools because they don’t feel private schools are good morally. Even though they could afford too

Well there are Labour party members who would support that.

I disagree that state education is subpar. Having worked in a variety of state schools, I have repeatedly found the teaching to be excellent. Of course there'll be kids who don't listen and mess about but if you want to learn you can.
I went to rough state schools myself with kids messing about in class and still it worked out perfectly fine. The average NT child can do just fine in a state school.

Universities downgrade entrance requirements.

I see a few holes in this argument. Wearing Boden clothes and eating Waitrose food doesn't confer the kind of huge networks and privilege that private school does, doesn't completely separate you from other clothes and junk food, and some Boden items and Waitrose food are vastly more accessible to vastly more people than private school is. You can get items on sale from those retailers. There are no sales on school fees!

As for people working several jobs...we all have the same number of hours in the day. If someone is working "several" jobs - i.e. three or more - then they are obviously not full-time at each.

Most people could have a full-time job and a part-time one on top and still not be able to afford private school. The fees are excessive these days. It's not like 50 years ago when you could send a child or two to private school on one teacher's salary. What you say perpetuates the lie that most people could send their children to private school if only they worked harder! It's just not true.

You accessing private healthcare doesn't deprive an NHS patient of care.

The enhanced academic grades your privately educated child gets may well deprive a poorer but possibly more able child of a university place.

They are not comparable.

I'd have less of a problem with private schools if all onward destinations were contextual offers; Eton? 3 A stars, please. St Bogwoods? ABB.

There are only so many uni places.

Furthermore, private school networks entrench privilege. Other parents at the school can offer internships to your son and vice versa. Even in the NHS, where I worked, the HR hassle of work experience caused them to shut the scheme down; yet somehow the offspring of consultants from the 2 top public schools locally managed to get each others kids in.

I know you cannot totally erase such unfairnesses from society, but you can limit the overt exercise of it.

What do you mean by the teacher element having been removed?

Stability is often partly down to money. And tho love, nurturing and kindness aren' down to money specifically, if people are stressed because they don't have money or have to work two jobs to make the money they need they often don't have the brain space to show it as much as someone who isn't worried where the next meal is coming from.

This!

It’s so desperately unfair that children from poverty will undoubtedly receive a lesser standard of education than the middle/upper classes (where they already enjoy so many more privileges).

Surely every single child deserves the same standard of education irrespective of £?

Everything???? Love, nurturing,kindness,stability, these are some of the things that money can't buy

The thing is state education is near universal. It's 5.9% in independent schools now. This is actually fewer than some countries people have mentioned below as not using independent schools.
Wales has less in private school than Finland. I appreciate that it's uneven so edingburgh and surrey have much higher numbers.

Obviously education is for everyone's benefit, but I remain unconvinced banning private schools or indeed just taxing the users will materially benefit my son at state school.

Agreed, it is failing - for lots of different reasons.

One of them is chronic underfunding, which will at least apparently be addressed by money coming from the private sector and into the state sector.

Private education parents can then leave their kids in the schools they believe to be better, and hopefully those in state get a better deal too.

Personally I’ve got no issue with those in the better financial positions (as in, can afford private education) putting that money in.