To wonder if you are against private schools…

@Bikergran I'm sure that was a reply to a specific thing way back. I support as many different types of education and schools we can get and I don't believe in dumbing down education.
School won't improve with more ex private school parent's in them

Private schools give a warning to state schools. When enrolment in private schools goes up, you know the state sector is failing.

Why? The parents paying for private schools are still paying as much tax as anyone else to support the state system, plus they are taking up less state places, thereby taking pressure off the system. How does that take away from others?

@FloreatEtona "I probably do mean setting. You knew what I meant."

No i didn't. Words have meanings.

I probably do mean setting. You knew what I meant.

@FloreatEtona Comprehensive education does not mean mixed ability teaching. Also-I suspect you mean setting. Streaming is generally considered a bad idea.

@Singinginthespring , that's a problem in comprehensive education.
A class of bright students will be pushed, but a mixed class won't.
Fairly affluent areas are more likely to have parents who have done well academically.
Lack of streaming results in mixed classes, with the difference in ability and attitude likely to be more marked in deprived areas.

Solent123, I don't know human rights law so don't know if the case will be won. As it seems to be useful in all kinds of unexpected areas and Labour seems very keen on it in other contexts, may be it is useful here too.

In general terms I think we have taken human rights law far far too far. It should be about not torturing prisoners of war etc not the very mild cases where it seems to be raised left right and centre these days.

My able 8 year old child said that they hadn’t learned anything new in maths for 2 years. I complained to the head who said, and I quote “with my social conscience cap on we have to focus on the weaker students”. Dragging the bright down to the weakest is certainly a thing in some Scottish state schools. There’s a reason why Scotland is plummeting down the league tables.

It is clear that the system cannot continue as it is now.

Very good education should be a basic right, and a basic tenet of a civilised society and not something you only get if you have pots of money to throw at it or battle the local education authority for a funded SEN place. It is in everyone's interests that society is well educated and that everyone is allowed to reach their potential.

@LiceoDolce "You just have to get on with learning 14 different subjects in KS3 when you can't add up. At gcse you know you are going to fail so what's the point."

As part of my reforms I would reintroduce the BTecs that the Right hate so much.

No.

Don't forget that children are liable to have different experiences even within the same school depending on what sets or streams they end up in.

What do people even mean when they say good state schools or bad state schools? The education and funding being provided are very similar. The difference is the intake which then has knock on effects to teacher retention.

You also have shadow schooling going on where students are coming home and learning from tutors in the evenings which can have a big affect on results too.

Many schools are in a position where they have angry, bored students who have no interest in the curriculum and can't understand it. Perhaps because they missed out on some basic skills/concepts earlier in school and there is no option to repeat and no resources for extra help. You just have to get on with learning 14 different subjects in KS3 when you can't add up. At gcse you know you are going to fail so what's the point.

Anyway some schools have got around this by imposing absolutely rigid discipline which is not a nice way to spend one's childhood. Not sure it encourages many soft skills either.

Personally, if I was in charge I would completely reorganise the state school admission system to a combination of fair banding and ballot.

The moral maze debate was unusually poor. The exact same lazy stereotypes and arguments I've seen on here and very few references to the crux of the issue...namely, the vast underfunding of the state sector and the inability of the sector to adequately provide a safe education for kids with additional needs who do not meet the threshold for EHCPs .
I absolutely agree all kids should have the same standard of education..but let's level up, not down, to achieve that. Or would all these people with kids in great state schools with wealthy MC catchment areas be happy for them to be randomly picked to be bussed over to the "sink school" that's falling down, has no permanent science and maths specialists and gets poor results? So it's fair?

There are over 3,000 UK schools on the list having academic standards below the national average. Instead of just hire more teachers, & fix crumbling schools

goodness the teachers and crumb-fix might end up going to the above average schools!!

Why weren’t the 3,000 schools a campaign pledge?
(Yes, I understand averages … there will always be schools “below average”).

The state sector is two tier !!!

Lots of chatter on SM grps about a ‘protest’ in London - getting the children and parents to march in Downing Street, kids dressed in school uniform with placards declaring their future is at risk etc - and some disbelief that this is a non-issue for most people!

Can’t wait to see the kids in full private school regalia - I do hope the likes of Christs Hospital and Hill House join in - marching to save themselves against the horrors of having to attend state schools.
Nothing better to get the public in your side than a load of children in uniforms that cost as much as many families food budget for the month…

It perpetuates inequality and upholds an unfair class system.

That requires a good education to be available to all.

Sorry, but isn’t there already a TWO Tier education system within the state sector?

Students from a very long list of state schools are eligible for Contextual Uni Offers because the school is considered …

• – if your school’s academic performance is lower than the national average

Why not tackle the bottom of state schools, the ones with academicbelow national average …

@Xenia do you have an opinion on if the ISC court case stands a chance? Dan Neidle posted on twitter that he thinks that Lord Pannick is wrong and almost every tax lawyer will agree with him that the ECHR does not stop Labour putting VAT on school fees.

Vehemently against. A good education is the right of every child, not a privilege.

Having a two-tiered education system perpetuates inequality.

Get rid of it and make all education state but fund it properly.

It is hard to generalise as there are good and bad state and private schools and why parents pay fees varies too. I have been happy to pay and at university stage (2024 is my first year not paying even for the youngest who are in first jobs (I paid university fees too).

The BBC Radio 4 Moral Maze programme on these issues sounds interesting - mentioned here - https://www.isc.co.uk/media-enquiries/news-press-releases-statements/parents-have-every-right-to-ensure-that-their-child-has-the-support-they-need-says-isc-ceo/

It's no just their behaviour policy. It is SO much more. The head is a mouthy cow basically who offends many people.

Having followed many of these threads, my observations are the opposite in the overwhelming majority. People are able to make all sorts of stereotyped generalisations about private school children with absolutely no consequence. Examples include snobby, spoon-fed, using perceived posh names in a derogatory way, unable to communicate with people from different backgrounds. Comments often made based on encounter of one privately educated person or knowing one family who have chosen this route.

Meanwhile should anyone make a slight comment about a disadvantage of the state sector, they are shot down in an instant. This is alongside multiple threats from teachers in the state sector posting about how dire it is with poor behaviour, unqualified staff etc etc.

The reality is there are good and bad in both sectors. Some children and schools will have traits that correlate with the stereotypes but that is not reflective of the majority. My children's current prep school does not even vaguely resemble the idea most have about private schools and the state secondary they will (likely) go to also does not at this point.