The NI changes are going to cost my organisation £1000 per employee

Well it’s quite simple. The threshold has dropped from £9,100 to £5000. So every single employee immediately costs 15% of £4,100 more. That’s £615. Not £210. And for someone on the average UK salary of £35k, there’s also another 1.2% on £25,900. So that’s another £310. So the average employee now costs just under £1k more.

Yes, they'll have to absorb an increase in NI but that is business. You need to build in resilience, whatever type of business you are. Anything with tight margins is obviously going to find that much harder, and maybe the rules do need to be different for not-for-profits and charities, but that's what that lobbyists exist for. They won't be paying over £1000 extra in NI per employee as it's unlikely the majority of employees of a not-for-profit are on that kind of money to start off with.

There is also the blatant lie of Reeves and Starmer claiming that a "worker" won't pay any more tax.

There are categories of "worker" who end up paying their own employers NIC. I.e. directors of their own limited companies, agency workers, contractors under IR35, etc. These are "workers" especially workers who have to work under an agency or umbrella organisation. Their "employers NIC" is deducted from their payslip in the same way as the agency/umbrella fees, holiday and sick pay provisions, "employer" pension contributions, etc.

They've been badly hit by the Budget and no one seems to care or even understand why!

This is the frustrating thing. They had choices and more effective choices could have been applied. But they boxed themselves in pre election with silly sound bites that were impossible to uphold once in office.

Then needing to raise taxes to pay for their spending allocation they have chosen another immediate way of raising significant revenue, but it is one that harms growth. They desperately need growth.

As it is they still have billions of unfunded expenditure and the markets having digested the budget are now reacting.

Re cutting 4.3bn from the benefits bill, they could do this from the cost it takes to run the benefits system - I imagine it's much like the managerial issue other posters are speaking about in regards to the NHS.

I have been working for DWP for about a year now after many years working in the private sector. I have never worked somewhere so badly managed and inefficient. You simply wouldn't get away with it in the private sector where you're accountable to actual people with skin in the game - but when it's the public purse it's a free for all.

Staff retention ridiculously low due to poor training so wasted paying 2 months of wages for people to not actually do one day of the job. I've been told off for working too quickly because they want the work to last long enough to get overtime, piss poor training done over teams with highly paid "trainers" paid a FORTUNE to read off a PowerPoint screen they didn't even make because they haven't actually done the job themselves that they're training us for, ridiculous hour long meetings with up to 2500 sitting watching big wigs patting themselves on the back about a job well done, ridiculously poor work ethic culture with everyone adopting a "not my problem" and "let's kick the can down the road" attitude - hiring us all through an agency so paying the agency fees on top of the cost of wages, tax, NI, etc - and we could easily run as efficiently (which isn't very due to aforementioned poor training and bad management and terrible work ethic) on a quarter of the staff! In our site alone 120 people were brought in over the course of a week - no one was even interviewed, just checked they had 5 gcses and given the job, and we were all handed laptops, monitors, keyboards, wfh equipment, etc like they were fucking tic tacs with absolutely zero checks that we were remotely competent at the job.

We are now working with really vulnerable people with zero training and support and are thrown under the bus constantly - the decent, hard workers who actually care about the people we're working with are leaving in droves (meaning all the money invested in their training, useless as it was, is wasted - plus repeating the cycle hiring more to go through the same), leaving the work shy, dossers who don't give a shite because it's so easy to skive about and do fuck all, which enivetably is just putting vulnerable people at risk.

Don't even get me started on the amount of managers that exist just for the sake of being managers, literally creating jobs for themselves.

The first 6 months of this job was literally just fixing multiple different mistakes on a nationwide scale - just clearing the backlog, not even fixing the problem, which is just going to repeat itself over and over and then a new team will be hired to clear up the mistakes again when the backlog gets long enough. The civil service is literally just creating jobs for itself and pissing money up the wall left right and centre. All the while whinging about pay rises - in my opinion we're already overpaid for what we're doing. Never mind the hypocrisy of how things are run that you just wouldn't get away with in the private sector, including major breaches of GDPR and the mishandling and losing of people's information and a complete disregard of their duty of care to vulnerable people.

Cutting numbers and increasing efficiency, employing competent staff and prioritising staff retention of good workers, and cutting out the middle man of recruitment agencies would go a long way in reducing the benefit bill.

What was 'aggy' about their post?

Is it 'aggy' when someone posts a reasoned opinion on here?

How many people do Parish Council employ?

I did the calculations for a small charity yesterday, and it comes to around that as an average for a full year.

the costs of covid furlough (and bonkers payments tot he likes of Mone) have to be recouped somehow - it was madness for tories to cut employee NI contributions.

I went through the budget for our work for next year - we are having to cut 2 heads we were planning to hire in the UK because of the NI raise. I know a lot of businesses a similar size to us (medium size) will do the same. I suspect the medium term impact will be less companies hiring or fewer new jobs which will have an impact on the amount of people unemployed.

The ones that will really suffer though are hospitality - they employ a lot of people and don't make a huge amount of profit in the first place.

I can't understand why anyone trusts a politicians manifesto in the first place. Like the UK was struggling poorly because toys was evil and labour are pure. There are all lies.

There's no choice now its done. It will either work or it won't and there's nothing we can do about it. So I don't loose sleep. We have a time bomb of socail care costs so doing nothing isn't a option either. We'll it was.you just do nothing like before and people die with no dignity.

We could move away from a model where we all pitch in the help our most vulnerable. I'm sure we'd all op out then regret it once we get seriously ill.

NHS is a leviathan cash cow (world's biggest organisation) and dysfunctional to a great extent.

@SnapdragonToadflax

The Tories have made people believe you shouldn't have to pay taxes

Not just the Tories. Labour too. Brown was a tax cutting Chancellor. He brought in the 10% lower income tax rate (then scrapped it). He reduced basic rate income tax. He reduced NIC. He brought in a zero rate of corporation tax for small companies (then scrapped it). He brought in tax credits which flooded the country with taxpayers' cash as it massively increased benefits (he tried to claim it was a negative tax, hence calling them tax credits!). He introduced tax free ISA accounts.

To infer that only the Tories cut tax is blatantly wrong.

Thank you, my brain is not in gear this week and trying hard to understand these additional costs.

The bar is so low for understanding of how an economy works in this Country that people can't see why one can easily afford it and the other can't.

Yes to this. Labour have come up against the markets now and that's the difference between pre GE spin / lies and reality

I was looking for more hours at work for more money. I feel this won't happen now and I'll be stuck with not alot of money

Why are you getting aggy with people at 9am in the morning. I didn’t say I had ‘evidence’, I said I had read an article on the exemptions, which included a statement from the department of health and social care that the details of those providing NHS services was to come, as was what services were deemed public sector.

None of my comments refer to NWM, nor have I commented how tax rises will or will not appear in price rises for customers, other than to comment on the caps for council tax.

If you’re looking for a budget in the entirety of British political history that hasn’t caused controversy then good luck to you. And if you’re looking to reply condescendingly to anyone who does not feel particularly negatively towards the budget or to Labour, then good luck with that too.

Voted not screamed.

Nail on the head.

I think for a couple of reasons they've realised they need to raise more money than they thought but they want to keep a veneer of keeping their manifesto pledges. As such they've introduced a messy hodge podge of changes which will be more harmful in the long run rather than just grasping the nettle of adding a penny to all the income tax thresholds.

I think politics should be left out of this forum.
Anyway, Labour voters have what they screamed for.
👍

How much are you paying your employees that a 1.2% increase is going to result in £1000 per employee. Even allowing for the shift in threshold (which amounts to £210 per employee) you’d need to be paying strong wages across the board to reach £1,000 per head.

Fully agree with this. Two years seems a lot but there's a lot of middle ground between this and day one.

We've had two people of the kind you describe in the 15 years I've been with my current employer.

Both were great on paper and in interviews but difficult, upset all other staff, were impossible to manage, rude and aggressive.

It was hard enough to get rid of them under current rules.

I think six months to a year would be much fairer all round.

It really is a budget to remove all benefits of effort for those in lower paid jobs. No point stepping up, working hard and taking on extra responsibility because you'll now be on about 3p an hour more than the new starts.

No point putting in a pension which will only ever be modest because you won't qualify for anything and will be worse off.

Really my husband would be better to drop to part time (he does have a serious back problem and has had major surgery but still works a physical manufacturing job) and give up his supervisor responsibilities which are now paid at 13p an hour more than minimum wage. We'd then qualify for universal credit.

On other threads other people said 'well he just has to ask for more '. Fine. That might work. They'd keep him over the new starts as he can make things the others can't. But if the young lads go he'll be doing all the heavy lifting on his own (literally) and that will cripple him.

I don't see it as a budget for working people.

The OP must be on a salary of around £70K for the employer to be paying £1000 extra a year in NI contributions. It's hard to imagine that everyone in charities/not for profits is on that kind of money tbh. I'm in the private sector, in an SME, and the cost to the employer won't be anything like that per employee.

Yep.

Large employer, like Nuffield health that employees 16,000 people and makes no profit?

Or large employer, like sage software who employ 11,000 people and make half a billion in profit.

The bar is so low for understanding of how an economy works in this Country that people can't see why one can easily afford it and the other can't.

The markets see the problem though, and that's the only opinion that matters.

Oh dear... Same old debate, clearly ignorance is at play here... Or perhaps ostrich syndrome? Or just hard die Tory....