That ship has sailed

True, but if a job is workable remotely, why should we accept it as the norm again?

My DH works from home as a contractor on an hourly rate.

He got offered another contract one hour away from home for £2 an hour more. He turned it down.

If he factored in the extra 10 hours a week he'd be away from home, the adjusted hourly rate was less than what he was earning in the current role. Sure, in cash terms it's more, but he'll lose 10 hours to sitting in his car, in traffic, putting wear and tear on his car. On top of that, he's healthier than he ever was working in an office. He constantly had colds and viruses, which he then passed on to me.

I'm a massive advocate for hybrid/WFH, as long as it isn't abused.

Think it's knowledge you need rather than strength.

It's interesting how many people assume the relatively new concept of most people commuting a distance to a workplace outside their home is age old.

Yeah this! If you were in the office full time before covid, then there is NO reason for you to not get back into the office. If your employer wants you back in, there is a reason for that. You are very likely underperforming.😒

@iamtheblcksheep · Today 02:31

I don’t want to listen to your screaming kids, barking dog or washing machine when I call you.

I think most are reluctant to return to work because they have given up their after school child care. If your kids are in the house and you’re the only adult there you aren’t working.

Exactly this too. ^ No way is everyone who works from home doing the job properly. Some people do, but some definitely bloody don't! Some people swing the lead when they are 'working' from home. Fact.

And as has been said, who the F wants to hear a barking dog or a crying baby when they're trying to discuss something important/crucial/financial/personal?!

Unless someone is self employed, the very idea of everyone working from home - full time - would have been laughed at 10+ years ago, and it should be laughed at now. No matter what the circumstances, even if people think they have special reasons to work from home, they need to get back into the office if their employer is demanding it. They worked in the office before covid, they do it now. No arguments!

This is what millions and millions of people have done since the dawn of time. Commute to and from work.

Give me strength! 😖

Someone doing their job from home, whilst walking dogs, getting kids to and from school, doing washing and cleaning, and having 2 hour lunches is NOT an 'important asset.'

Why would they not care about their most important asset?

Ah, that makes sense.

I don't know, I do wonder if it varies a bit from industry to industry and at different levels of seniority. I work for myself now (thankfully!), but in previous organisations I didn't experience it as a widespread issue. One was a (well-run) charity, so most staff were motivated by the cause. The other was a commercial business where people were very well-paid dependent on performance, so also very well motivated!

I do wonder if people in jobs that are less intrinsically meaningful or well-paid might be more prone to slacking off if the opportunity arises.

I have noticed that a lot of companies are keen to get people back in, but not always convinced that this is because of a 'real' reason, rather than the management are suspicious and just wanting to see bums on seats. I notice that more where there is a more old-fashioned management culture, e.g. the City.

All of those issues were prevalent. It was a turn around company, so there were many issues in that particular case, however none of them manifested as much pre-covid.

My experience is not unusual though unfortunately. Many of my peers had the exact same, so it is more common than you might imagine. This is proved by the amount of companies getting people back into the office I suppose.

I've taken work calls on days off before. I don't think there's much to be concluded from one isolated incident

I would be looking to your organisational culture, recruiting practices and rewards structures, in that case, as it would seem that you are not attracting the right calibre employees, or there are issues with culture and management more widely within the organisation.

There will always be a small minority of piss-takers, but if you're finding this is the norm then it points to more wide-spread issues.

My point was that most people think of it in the same terms as you are, i.e. from your own perspective. I was the CTO, and often the CEO would present himself asking questions that needed answering rapidly. Under those circumstances, quite frankly, there is very little that the colleague could be doing that I couldn't justify interrupting.

I get what you mean about information being available with managers too lazy to look it up, that I definitely didn't do and would put it down to poor working practices. Fortunately, as CTO, I was able to ensure that all the relevant tools for knowledge sharing were available and used which minimised the need for such interruptions. Indeed we created dashboards for the CEO to use (which rarely happened), so I completely get where you are at. Bottom line though, sometimes it is necessary, and that's my decision to make.

Whether you agree or not, there is also a lot of value in the 'water cooler' conversation. You may have thought of it as an interruption, however someone else may have thought that speaking to you was very beneficial.

but they could be off the phone and still not free ? the constant interruptions is one thing I don't miss from the office or tye people shoving past my desk to get to the person next to me to talk to them also interuppting me. even worse was a manger constantly interrupting me to ask what he deemed urgent questions where it was sent to him in an email or was on the system etc but too lazy to look

Maybe she was on her lunch break taking a work call? Maybe it was her day off?

Maybe she doesn't have to be at her desk to take this work call?

I understand this, however there are times when the colleague needed to be interrupted as what I need is more important. If I can walk out and see you're on the phone, it's easy to wait until you are free.

It is indeed a performance issue, and we did tackle it. It was so many people that the best means of tackling it was to make everyone come back to the office. Unfortunately, it wasn't just one person performing poorly, it was more like one person performing efficiently.

Also worth pointing out that the further away we get from February 2020, the less likely it is that the public transport options will be unchanged. There are going to be people who relied on a bus or train 5 years ago that doesn't run now.

I used to commute to the office, every day, because I had to. Conservatively, 2 hours commuting time per day.

That's 10 hours per week.

450 hours (18.75 days) in a typical year.

In a forty year career, that's 18,000 hours, or 750 days, over 2 years.

Fuck that if there is an alternative.

I jumped ship over a year ago. We were hybrid 2 days in the office and we had a signed agreement for this. Obviously on the company terms. They decided that we would have to go in 3 days and at the same time gave a minimal pay rise of 1.8% (it was the year minimum wage went up 10%, some companies did cost of living payments and inflation was crazy) that didn't cover the fuel for the extra day. They were also a bad company so that was the final straw.

The problem is, you can't vote with your feet if all workplaces are doing the same thing. It's more of a principle thing to me. That wasn't what was agreed. If I agree it with the next place and they value me as an employee then I'm fine.

Same. I spent so much time on a screen with a headache and then it was a migraine on the way home accompanied by nausea.
Now if I get a headache I’ve got easy access to anything I need and can lie down straight away after. I’ve not had one day off in a year of a new job. Same with colds etc

Or people would answer the phone but it was clear that they were not at home working, but in a shop/restaurant on the golf course or whatever. But they'd always volunteer some sort of 'sorry if it's noisy, I've just had to pop out to the chemist for some paracetamol for a headache' or some such nonsense.

This reminds me, a friend and I went for a walk a couple of weeks ago round a local reservoir/nature reserve. We sat on a bench for a bit to enjoy the sun, there was a woman at the end of the bench quite clearly involved in a work call. Obviously not at her desk!

Good advice.

Anecdotally, there seem to be quite a few people who started new remote/primarily home based roles during the restrictions period and just got the standard contract shoved at them because everyone was off sick, furloughed etc.

Word of warning for anyone thinking of jumping roles to get more flexibility. Get your wfh agreement written into your contract.

I think a lot of employers are trying to be vague about that at the minute but if it isn't in the contract, it's easy for them to roll back on promises made verbally.

You’re coming off as childish, you’re saying you accepted a hybrid role (although your contract doesn’t reflect this agreement). Resign if you want to leave, no need to clog up mumsnet with this non-event. Essentially your employer is seeking to uphold the terms of the contract you signed, you could find yourself in breach of contract if you aren’t happy to uphold the terms. Lesson for you: don’t sign another contract that doesn’t reflect the terms you’re seeking, your new contract would need to reflect the hours you are happy to work in the office and should specify if you’re fully remote. There aren’t many contracts offered that do stipulate remote working, friends who’ve required/insisted on these terms have accepted roles with lower wages that reflect the flexibility. I’d have thought your time was better spent looking for a new more flexible employer, they are out there…as you’ve pointed out.

I am on annual leave today. shocking 😲
and for your further information I don't have a set one day a week in the office it depends on requirements and what my boss wants. I have 4 days a week work from home 😉

My company is hybrid. I'm the boss.

I'm not planning on changing it anytime soon as I know it gives my team a better work life balance.

WFH also makes jobs much more accessible to people. We couldn't, for example, hire someone to work in the office full time that had severe mobility problems. We rent an office on the first floor of a building that doesn't have a lift, so the ability for someone to work from home instead can make a job much more achievable for someone with a disability.

We do, however, have one staff member that takes the piss. As a result we rescinded his right to work from home (full disciplinary process). We're starting allowing it again with expectations of performance and attendance, but it is an absolute pain for us to manage and monitor him. We will do so though and will go through capability/disciplinary procedures if we have to as, quite frankly, he's a liability anyway.

I can see, therefore, why some businesses are bringing people back in. As always, it's the actions of the minority that affect everyone else.

All I would say though to you OP is tread carefully. Use the rights available to you to request flexible working, but don't be insubordinate to the requests of management in the meantime (i.e. don't give them any reason to start a disciplinary procedure against you). If your contract states that you are to work in the office and the WFH arrangement was introduced due to covid, like ours was, they are entirely within their right to ask everyone back in.

What effect that has on their staff retention is, of course, another matter.