That ship has sailed

I don’t agree most employers base productivity on how green people are on teams, however, I do notice a correlation between those who always appear orange and how much work gets done.

I base productivity on frequency of output of good quality deliverables. In my org this will be papers and publications drafted, activities towards set milestones achieved, stakeholder relationships created, plans developed, tech development etc.

Its very easy to see who is delivering these things and who is not. Its usually the ones who are often orange who are the latter.

I’m targeted in my management of slackers and will give poor performance reviews. I want to avoid slackers spoiling it for others. Unfortunately in many organisations the slackers think they’re clever and people can’t tell. They can, it’s just that weak management won’t deal with it effectively. This is why whole orgs are being made to come in more. If productivity was genuinely higher for the org, they’d keep everyone at home, but it isn’t in many cases.

I wish working from home was an option where I work, at least occasionally. I spend 2 hours driving to sit in a small room of people exchanging germs and making constant noise, under bright lights that require special glasses to avoid migraines. The cleaning is inadequate and actually poses an infection control risk, and I have to walk past rough sleepers (who are occasionally abusive). The temperature is always too hot or too cold and every time something breaks we spend hours chasing down maintenance. It's hard to see how this is more productive.

Since everyone keeps saying "well before COVID I worked in the office five days" Before COVID it cost me about £40 to fill up my car, it's now £65/70. Before COVID (i've changed jobs since then) my current commute would cost about £20 a day, it's now £34 (with a railcard). Have all these employers given actual cost of living increases over the past five years? Or are they just expecting that same salary to stretch 5 times further so people can sit in an office on teams all day.

I genuinely couldn't afford to go back 5 days, luckily we're hybrid and really struggle to recruit so they don't want to rock the boat too much. I find 2 days in the office is a nice happy medium. I try and schedule all my meetings for those days then do my admin days at home.

I also find that on my office days regardless of what i'm doing i'm clock watching from 3:45. I need to be out of the door bang on 4 to make sure I get my train, even if i'm in the middle of something. At home i'll happily work until 5/6 to finish up a task if needed. But absolutely no chance am I staying in the office until 5 to then wait for a train then commute for an hour.

I went from a job with little, if any, wfh to fully
remote and contracted so. It changed during covid and it’s a fairly niche government role (about 25 people in the UK do it).

They’re very flexible and happy for you to go off for a couple of hours during the day to do stuff etc as long as you do your hours. You clock in/out and have to record your breaks.

I am so paranoid about taking the piss, I put in more hours and work harder than I did in my office job. However, I am also not stressed for the first time in my adult life. My career so far has been interspersed with periods of long term sick (I suspect I’m at least on the edge of being ND and previously would get very overwhelmed and burnout).

Yes I have days where I scroll a bit too much on my phone and the plumber swings by or my neighbour pops in with a parcel. When I was in the office, I went for vape breaks, would stop and chat to colleagues for not insignificant amounts of time. Its swings and roundabouts. I’d say overall I get the same amount done but I’m significantly less stressed and can’t see me having the same MH problems that I had when working in an office for 40 hours a week plus commuting.

Depends what's in your contract. If it's been properly changed to say you wfh then they can't expect you to come back into the office. If not, then you should have expected this and seen it coming. However you don't 'have' to work there and can apply for roles that are contracted to wfh. As a op said, people vote with their feet.

That’s absolutely how my employees are playing it. Not so much with mandated return to office but with an office move to somewhere a lot less convenient

Given the budget announcement and the impact on businesses, I suspect more companies will start to do this as a cost effective way of downsizing without having to pay redundancy.

So be careful you don't jump into another company to find the same thing happens.

You have been really lucky WFH all this time. No paying fares just getting dressed if you have video calls. Lots of people never had the choice of WFH but you go on have your moan.
You wont leave because you will have to start a new job and I bet most employers want to end WFH. So good luck.

A lot of my friends (largely 40s) are concerned about their younger members of staff lacking professional interpersonal skills because they’re not coming into the office enough to develop them.

while they are getting the core function of their work done ok - they aren’t learning the soft skills round the edges - like ‘reading a room’ in a meeting or having difficult client communication modelled to them by more senior staff.

there are plenty of jobs that can be done from home. But I don’t think workers are truly honest about the cost of being completely bubbled off from human contact most of the time, however convenient it is for child / dog / plant care

😂 well I clearly touched a nerve 😂

Working in the office was perfectly fine before the pandemic so why should you expect different now? They were the conditions of the job you signed up for.

And businesses aren't 'demanding workers bend over backwards for them' by expecting them to actually do their job and go into the office 😂 They expect you back in so do your job. Your cat will just have to wait.

Loads of people who are currently wfh actually WANT to go back to the office because they are lonely and isolated and miss the connection with their colleagues but can't because selfish foot stampers like you sit there spitting your dummy because you want to watch daytime TV and do your washing.

I've never read the DM in my life 😊 but I'm glad you got to release a little of your pent up anger this morning. 😉

Take a few deep breaths, wfh doesn't seem to have reduced your

They won’t care if individuals leave. Unless you’re in a niche section you’re replaceable. In fact career wise good to move on and get experience elsewhere. There will be someone who will take your place. Everyone is entitled to move on if they don’t like the direction their company is going in.

The amount of bitter, negative and dismissive language used in this thread is unbelievable.

"Get your arses up" "stamping their feet" "lazy"

Well done, you really are nice and brainwashed aren't you!

Well everyone who works in shops, supermarkets, hospitals, refuse collection etc etc etc have to get their arses up and work long hours on location. If you care to admit it or not, all your office jobs are pretty damned cushty and like the rest of working society, yes you should all be back in working on location, getting in contact with many companies post pandemic is bloody impossible for example. Also before anyone says it, it’s not easy to just “go get another job in an office” if your doing a manual job, just go back into work like everyone else has to!

As long as people are delivering I don't see the issue with WFH or hybrid. But I know of people who have never delivered and never will.

Prior to COVID I was only in one day a week and it was never a problem. Now we are hybrid. Either doesn't bother me because I live and work in the same city. But there are people who based decisions on WFH and now feel aggrieved having to travel quite considerable distances and using money for gas.

When I did go in I saw so many people not working, browsing the internet. But it's about presentism.

I think this is employers taking away something so people leave.

I think it will shake down again

Or maybe just go to work.

Those working at home and stamping their feet seem to miss that if you can WFH then anyone really can do your job no matter where you are in the world. And eventually so will AI.
So keep demanding to wfh and get yourselves replaced.

This. As a consumer I’m so fed up of crap service from people working from home. We’ve just moved accountants to someone with an office that is actually there.

we could never get hold of people between 8-9am or 3-5pm. Yes they might work between that but that’s not when I need them. Too many people are taking the piss. My kids had a playdate yesterday and it turns out the Mum was “wfh”. I was worried they’d be sat in a screen all day. Oh no, they went to the park and out for lunch. Now, even if she does do the 5 hours that took up in the evening or another day (she is supposedly full time) that’s 5 hours in a working day she wasn’t available for clients or other people in the businesses.

Too many people who work in jndustries where wfh isn’t possible are getting fed up with crap service and voting with their feet.

Yeah, I think the people who work really hard at home are in the minority. Putting out a load of laundry takes more than 5 mins, same for dishes and answering the door isn't just 30 seconds.

When you try to call your team and you know they're not in a meeting, then you have to wonder why they take 30+ minutes to call you back.

Plus people working from home only on a laptop screen - that automatically cuts productivity before they even sit down. From memory extra screens increase productivity by something like 15%. Some articles I've just googled suggest it's a 42% increase - which is significant.

Massive generalisation there.

My partner didn't sit in his pyjamas all day pretending to work, as much as that would suit your pathetic little narrative 🙄

How about the businesses stop 'stamping their feet' and demanding the workers bend over backwards for them.

Good luck to them repeatedly replacing their workers when they repeatedly keep leaving to find hybrid/WFH jobs and keep using their shitty office one as a brief go between in the meantime 👍🏼

How about you stop being so pig ignorant and see that a lot of people are more productive at home when they're not stressing about the work run and dealing with the school run at the same time etc.
No, that wouldn't fit with what The Daily Mail have told you though, would it? 🥱

I've worked from home 5 days a week for the last 3 years.

I absolutely love it. I always hit my targets as well (before anyone comes along and accuses me of being lazy/slacking)

This is the thing, the good people are the ones who will leave in this situation and easily walk into better jobs.

Some of the stats I’ve seen teams usage when WFH have shocked me. There is a large enough part of the workforce who aren’t WFH like the company would expect, using mouse jigglers and similar ‘repetitive movement devices’ to fake activity.

Equally the number of missed calls some people have now is another indication that work isn’t their primary focus when WFH.

Unfortunately a number of bad eggs are spoiling the trust and forcing managements hands.

I completely agree with you OP.
My partner's job is I.T based and very easily done at home with his work laptop, but for some reason his company insisted they all went back into the office five days a week.
This caused a massive exodus of workers as nobody wanted that now.

Businesses need to realise that unless they absolutely cannot perform their job outside the office, there is no good reason why a lot of jobs can't be at least hybrid between being at home a few days a week and in office a few days a week.

It makes zero sense to me why they are being so pig headed over it.
As a result, he is now back in office but actively searching for another job as he doesn't want to be there anymore.

The entitlement of people since the pandemic is unreal. It's impossible for employers these days without people stamping their feet because they don't get to lounge around in their PJs at home pretending to work.
Granted SOME people might feel they are more productive at home but most aren't.
Your employer needs you back in the office and if you like the job then get your arse back in there. Or leave and do your employer a favour so they can find some decent staff.