End of Mat Leave and WFH

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 2024-10-31T12:33:33+00:00

Hi all I returned from Mat Leave after 10 months in August, with my husband doing the last two months as SPL. My son is now in nursery three days a week, and we both work five days compressed into four. I completely underestimated the impact of returning to work, because before my husband was caring for our child in our house. The adjustment is hard, and I went back full time cold turkey. My office requires 40% attendance, the nearest offices are 2h away. They removed this requirement and barred me from the office when I was pregnant due to high risk factors, so I haven't been in for months. My team has always had below-target attendance because it really doesn't suit our tasks. WIBU to now ask for a phased return in the form of WFH whilst I'm still breastfeeding? It's the thing that really causes issues because I can't express (I've really tried but it takes over an hour to produce one measly feed!), and I can't be back to feed my son without turning back practically after I arrived. Whenever I have attended the offices in the past, 9/10 either the person I have come to meet has cancelled and attended virtually, or they've cancelled altogether.

purplebeansprouts · 01/11/2024 15:04

MsCactus · 31/10/2024 20:21

A lot more women left the workforce after mat leave.

It's super interesting but WFH after mat leave has led to way more women staying in work long term.

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Yup ita a godsend

MsCactus · 31/10/2024 20:21

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 31/10/2024 13:20

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis what did people do before wfh became a thing??? I think they all managed perfectly well! your baby is nearly one should be being weaned by now.

A lot more women left the workforce after mat leave.

It's super interesting but WFH after mat leave has led to way more women staying in work long term.

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 20:05

bugalugs45 · 31/10/2024 18:41

Well I would say you have nothing to lose by asking , but bear in mind they could say no ...
What would you do then ? Are you likely to leave and find another similar position where you can wfh more or exclusively ?

In the short term I'd just have to fail to meet the target (maybe hit 20% not 40%) and have to catch up in the new year.

As I said, my team has always been underperformers for this particular target, because a) it's industry standard for people in these roles to WFH and b) the type of work usually means we have to focus on these sort of projects by ourselves.

I've just noticed that the private working booths and desk dividers aren't even set up yet at the new London office!

OP posts:

teatoast8 · 31/10/2024 19:59

Nothatgingerpirate · 31/10/2024 17:04

I don't know about the other poster, who was bang on, but I don't work and never have done. My husband and I manage our own commercial and domestic rental properties.

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They weren't bang on at all. Was a ridiculous comment

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 19:59

V0xPopuli · 31/10/2024 18:16

I never really understand how compressed hours help anyone

You just have an even longer day (its hard to manage childcare long enough to cover a standard 9-5.30 with a commute, let alone trying to do 8-6.30 pm or whatever.

How do the childcare drop offs and pick ups work on the 2/3 days you are both in office

I do resent people who spoil wfh for everyone else by taking hybrid jobs with clear minimum office requirements and long commutes they can't manage. At my work we have a core minority who basically thought they'd get away with only coming in one (or no) daysa week and living 2/3 hours away, raking it in getting London wages & living in the midlands etc. As a result the company has now increased the minimum time in the office from 2 to 3 days, just to get those people in. Most of them have joined the company knowing full well its hybrid, not remote, and literally just planned to take the piss from day one.

If you want a remote job, apply for a remote job! If you want to be near home to feed your baby on lunch etc, thats your personal circumstances, choose a job near home or a home nearer the office.

Well, it's a long and outing story, but honestly, this company has done a shit ton of restructures in the past few years. Fired a quarter of their staff, rehired half of them, are now doing redundancies and restructures again.

I did ask and expect to be put on the more local office which would be a lot more manageable, but my team are default put on London even though we work for core operations. Before I was pregnant I split my time between the two, and my plan would be to do the same in 3-4 months when I am phasing out BF, he's settled in nursery, and the confidential project is concluded.

OP posts:

bugalugs45 · 31/10/2024 18:41

Well I would say you have nothing to lose by asking , but bear in mind they could say no ...
What would you do then ? Are you likely to leave and find another similar position where you can wfh more or exclusively ?

V0xPopuli · 31/10/2024 18:16

I never really understand how compressed hours help anyone

You just have an even longer day (its hard to manage childcare long enough to cover a standard 9-5.30 with a commute, let alone trying to do 8-6.30 pm or whatever.

How do the childcare drop offs and pick ups work on the 2/3 days you are both in office

I do resent people who spoil wfh for everyone else by taking hybrid jobs with clear minimum office requirements and long commutes they can't manage. At my work we have a core minority who basically thought they'd get away with only coming in one (or no) daysa week and living 2/3 hours away, raking it in getting London wages & living in the midlands etc. As a result the company has now increased the minimum time in the office from 2 to 3 days, just to get those people in. Most of them have joined the company knowing full well its hybrid, not remote, and literally just planned to take the piss from day one.

If you want a remote job, apply for a remote job! If you want to be near home to feed your baby on lunch etc, thats your personal circumstances, choose a job near home or a home nearer the office.

YouveGotAFastCar · 31/10/2024 18:15

I’d use the business reasons over the breastfeeding one too. Not because there’s anything wrong with breastfeeding or it shouldn’t be a consideration for them, but because the business reasons are stronger and you have an OH report as back up anyway.

V0xPopuli · 31/10/2024 18:04

I do think your issue here is having chosen a job that's 2 hours from where you live.

Can you not find work nearer home?

Mumofteenandtween · 31/10/2024 17:23

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 17:06

Ah, a true expert in employment then. Thank god you're here, we were struggling without your experience and insight into something that's never affected you.

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I think that I might be a teeny tiny bit in love with you Op.

Basically your job needs to be done at home to avoid problems with confidentiality? So say that!

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 17:06

Nothatgingerpirate · 31/10/2024 17:04

I don't know about the other poster, who was bang on, but I don't work and never have done. My husband and I manage our own commercial and domestic rental properties.

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Ah, a true expert in employment then. Thank god you're here, we were struggling without your experience and insight into something that's never affected you.

OP posts:

Nothatgingerpirate · 31/10/2024 17:04

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 16:57

I do hope that you don't take advantage of any of the improvements to employment law since you started working. I'd hate to think you were a hypocrite.

There didn't used to be weekends, minimum wages, statutory sick leave, holiday pay, pensions, notice periods etc.

I assume that you use none of these because, well, people managed before without them?

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I don't know about the other poster, who was bang on, but I don't work and never have done. My husband and I manage our own commercial and domestic rental properties.

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 16:57

Nothatgingerpirate · 31/10/2024 16:46

👏👍

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I do hope that you don't take advantage of any of the improvements to employment law since you started working. I'd hate to think you were a hypocrite.

There didn't used to be weekends, minimum wages, statutory sick leave, holiday pay, pensions, notice periods etc.

I assume that you use none of these because, well, people managed before without them?

OP posts:

LlynTegid · 31/10/2024 16:49

I think your request is reasonable, be it wfh or a local office if that is an option. Phased return does not mean you are seeking a permanent change, as well.

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 16:47

TinyGingerCat · 31/10/2024 16:24

You could ask for an informal arrangement to tide you over, or you could put in another formal FWR as you are allowed to do 2 in 12 months. However your employer can take 2 months to get back to you. I'd be a bit annoyed you hadn't thought all this through better and I'd want to know how you think this would not affect the wider team or the business. I see so many colleagues with small kids opting for compressed hours and it is nightmarish to do. Would it be better to go to 4 actual days and take the hit on your salary?

As above, I think my reasons for not anticipating this were fairly clear. They can be annoyed all they want, but being annoyed isn't an official HR stance (and if they're annoyed, then that's at least equal to my annoyance at how they handled a few things about my mat pay etc - so we're even). I also offered to do a trial period, which they opted to skip.

And as above, 4 days would not be a viable option because the workload exceeds that. They have a huge cost savings drive on at the moment and the project I've identified creates an ongoing cost and time saving of 97% for part of their business operations.

If I were a business leader (and I have been), it would be a no brainer to allow this. I'm asking for other perspectives/how to pitch this, but I have no doubt that it's both reasonable and valuable to the company for me to work this way.

OP posts:

Nothatgingerpirate · 31/10/2024 16:46

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 31/10/2024 13:20

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis what did people do before wfh became a thing??? I think they all managed perfectly well! your baby is nearly one should be being weaned by now.

👏👍

TinyGingerCat · 31/10/2024 16:24

You could ask for an informal arrangement to tide you over, or you could put in another formal FWR as you are allowed to do 2 in 12 months. However your employer can take 2 months to get back to you. I'd be a bit annoyed you hadn't thought all this through better and I'd want to know how you think this would not affect the wider team or the business. I see so many colleagues with small kids opting for compressed hours and it is nightmarish to do. Would it be better to go to 4 actual days and take the hit on your salary?

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 16:19

ItTook9Years · 31/10/2024 16:07

Presumably you know now whether the return to the office (at least 12 times since August) has affected you?

Migraines aren’t usually expected to be life long, are they?. I’ve always had discussions about what was being done to manage them by the individual (one got them every TOTM and asked for 26 extra days of paid holiday as a reasonable adjustment to cover them so they didn’t have to use sick leave - they obviously didn’t get that and one of the reasons was that they were not accessing any medical or other support to try and resolve them).

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As above, the office was closed for an office move, so has only just opened again.

I won't seek to educate you on the entire effect of migraines, but I've been receiving medical support and suffering them for 28 years now. It is often a life long condition that's considered a disability.

(I had to refuse to alter MY reasonable adjustments on one office because a colleague was refusing to get eye tests for their headaches...)

OP posts:

ItTook9Years · 31/10/2024 16:07

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 15:52

From pre-covid. Different company, but I've shared it with my employer because they're very proactive about that sort of thing and very understanding.

It's for migraines - so an ongoing, lifelong condition. I've WFH pre and post COVID in a variety of roles, because I can then have full control of environmental triggers. I was having regular 1 to 3 week episodes of migraine, including poor attendance. These issues disappeared WFH because I can control the environment, but I don't always need them.

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Presumably you know now whether the return to the office (at least 12 times since August) has affected you?

Migraines aren’t usually expected to be life long, are they?. I’ve always had discussions about what was being done to manage them by the individual (one got them every TOTM and asked for 26 extra days of paid holiday as a reasonable adjustment to cover them so they didn’t have to use sick leave - they obviously didn’t get that and one of the reasons was that they were not accessing any medical or other support to try and resolve them).

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 16:01

Redcrayons · 31/10/2024 15:54

I’m early 50s and loads of my contemporaries didn’t return to work after mat leave because it was just too hard.

I had to wean mine before I went back to work because I had an hour commute and nowhere to pump during the day. I had to drop to part time to make childcare affordable. My career stalled, my pension pot took a hit, it took me years to get back to where I was before DC.

Compressed office hours and WFH options would have made my life so much easier.

Thankfully times have changed, technology has moved on, WFH is easier.

OP I don’t know the formalities of flexible working, but you’re a valuable and skilled employee so it’s in there interest to accommodate you.

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I just wanted to say thank you, because I've sadly encountered many older women who endured those struggles but who take a "I suffered, so should you" approach. A number of which were spoken about colleagues to me over Teams who didn't realise I was pregnant too!

And the worst being an HR woman who asked me if I was planning a family, and that she thought maternity rights had "gone too far"...

OP posts:

Redcrayons · 31/10/2024 15:54

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 31/10/2024 13:20

@TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis what did people do before wfh became a thing??? I think they all managed perfectly well! your baby is nearly one should be being weaned by now.

I’m early 50s and loads of my contemporaries didn’t return to work after mat leave because it was just too hard.

I had to wean mine before I went back to work because I had an hour commute and nowhere to pump during the day. I had to drop to part time to make childcare affordable. My career stalled, my pension pot took a hit, it took me years to get back to where I was before DC.

Compressed office hours and WFH options would have made my life so much easier.

Thankfully times have changed, technology has moved on, WFH is easier.

OP I don’t know the formalities of flexible working, but you’re a valuable and skilled employee so it’s in there interest to accommodate you.

Original poster

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 15:52

ItTook9Years · 31/10/2024 15:48

When is the OH report from? Is it what they used to make adjustments while you were pregnant? If so, do they still hold? If they were for SPD or something then surely that no longer applies?

From pre-covid. Different company, but I've shared it with my employer because they're very proactive about that sort of thing and very understanding.

It's for migraines - so an ongoing, lifelong condition. I've WFH pre and post COVID in a variety of roles, because I can then have full control of environmental triggers. I was having regular 1 to 3 week episodes of migraine, including poor attendance. These issues disappeared WFH because I can control the environment, but I don't always need them.

OP posts:

ItTook9Years · 31/10/2024 15:52

Why was the office closed?

Can you get this moved to Work? AIBU is a terrible place for employment matters.

ItTook9Years · 31/10/2024 15:50

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 31/10/2024 15:41

Yes, I used FWR.

If I'd anticipated better, I'd have put the start date of the compressed hours in from January, and have used holiday to do 4 days per week phased return. But as I didn't, I'd like to offer a temporary and informal arrangement up until January.

The one risk I don't want to run is to not show up at the office until Jan and have to make up the 40% attendance in a massive block.

They don’t have to consider, never mind agree a change to the agreed FWR, or a further informal working arrangement (by its nature, it can’t be informal).

ItTook9Years · 31/10/2024 15:48

When is the OH report from? Is it what they used to make adjustments while you were pregnant? If so, do they still hold? If they were for SPD or something then surely that no longer applies?