To think consequences for ds aren’t effective

Im not a fan this bright parenting lark - you do a naughty thing- you have a negative consequense. good thing - good consequence.

Sometimes they need to fear the repercussions of their actions or they will continue to do them.

TV issue - No tv, or book at bedtime, or reading. (may backfire - i just got good at reading in the dark - but oh well)
If he doesnt want to listen - he gets put in his room, let him scream angrily. eventually he will tire himself out and quiet down. then - you can talk to him reasonably, but sometimes its best to let them get into their own heads about it, wind themselves up and wear themselves out. ignore him, untill he is in the right place to be talked to. if he still wont see reason - then wash, rinse, repeat - its where lerned behaviour comes in. (works both ways - right now he knows he gets no consequenses carried though!)

What he learned was that he didn't get to remain on the windowsill. Thats the crucial bit. He didn't get his way, persisting did not result in him staying on the windowsill.
That's actually an incredibly important thing to learn, and you'll be glad of it in years to come.

I never thought of that. It seems obvious, but this is a light bulb moment for me!

My lad is similar to what OP describes so I have deep empathy (sympathy?)

I HATE when he laughs at the situation.

Recently, he did something that was dangerous to the baby and I spoke to him sternly and he laughed. It took all my inner strength not to escalate things. will now look at it as him being nervous, not being bold.

@ohowelaughed I feel your pain! No lines in the sand, no ‘I’m the grown up, so do as I say’.

At least, not with my eldest. Consequences and engineering the situation and cooperation. You have to make it so it works for him as well. Imagine he’s an adult with no requirement to do as you say. How would you approach it then? You’d offer something that matters to him, strike a deal, compromise.

He might be really clever. Mine was. Had other struggles, but was too clever by half and just didn’t get the idea that he was supposed to do what he was told. I’ve had kids that do, but some will cut their nose off to spite their face.

"How to talk so little kids listen" is a really helpful book to read, to understand how their brains work and how to use effective discipline.

The thing is, it doesn't really matter that he doesn't like the stern voice and pushes back, it's important to use it anyway so that he knows the difference between a request and a boundaried instruction.

He might well get arsey back but thats not in your control, of course he's pissed off if he can't do what he wants. But this isnt the shit bit of parenting of digging in anyway.

2-4 was a tough age for us but you come out the other side with a child that knows that your firm voice means something and those boundaries make everything so much easier on you both as they get older.

Also, where appropriate just walk off and ignore him. Don’t engage in the drama and ensure lots of attention for good behaviour

You don't need to shout.

Laughter is also a very normal reaction to getting told off in children - it's like a nervous reaction. Just ignore it (easier said than done, I know).

He’s 3. Cut him some slack! You seem hung up on compliance and consequences/punishments. As others have said, distract. ‘Catch ‘em being good’ is a good motto. Praise the good and build a positive relationship. Offer to ‘help’, eg can I help you get down from there, it’s not safe. You’re expecting a very small person to have the processing ability and reasoning of an adult, then unfairly chastising because he can’t process what you want him to do quickly enough.

If you're expecting him to learn immediately from his mistakes, that isn't realistic. With the windowsill example, when you say "I'm not convinced he learnt anything from that", I agree. Parenting is a long game and a lot of it at this age is repeating things you've said 100 times already until it finally sinks in. There's no magic way to tell him once and he'll never do it again. Not in my experience anyway!

Sanctions aren’t consequences.

Consequences are, not being allowed in that room because you aren’t safe with that window.

Not going to the park because you won’t get your shoes on.

Don’t expect a three/four yr old to have great impulse control. Engineer the situation to make it easier. Why spend time arguing and trying to control the child when you can control the situation?

Teach positively- let’s make sure that window is locked so we are all safe. Let’s use both hands to hold the cup so it stays steady. Let’s keep the food in the kitchen so it’s easy to clean up.

Boundaries- food stays in the kitchen, windows are kept locked, balls stay in the garden- lots of little phrases that accumulate to common sense as they get older.

Structure, boundaries, and communication.

Try distraction ‘oh come look at this Bobby, there’s a funny bird outside the window’

I just said a firm 'no we don't do that' very short explanation then moved the item or the child away or I stop giving attention and got on with something and we moved on

Even now much older consequences make no sense to me and i don't remember having to have the same conversation twice

And yes provide other avenues for the need.

So trying to draw "we draw on paper let's sit at the tavle/ ooh have you ever drawn outside with sticks" whatever.

If needing to climb can you provide things they can climb on? Or take them outside or if you're lucky enough to have something climbable in the garden? (we had one sofa that became the climbing sofa in our house although I know that's not great for all families! We also bought a pull up bar and an IKEA gym mat - small house and a big need for movement!!)

You used your fun voice and it became a game and then he was punished for the game, of course he was angry!

Try "no thank you, don't climb up there, you'll get hurt." You can use a nice but firm voice. But the communication needs to be clear.

And I'd advise using a neutral space like the step because his room is supposed to be safe, not a punishment zone (as he gets older he will just play there instead of reflecting).

It will be a few years of rinse and repeat but he will get there. I don't think one-offs like that can be addressed with a sticker chart, plus depending on age and nature, some kids cannot focus yet on delayed gratification and the slow burn to earn rewards. Hang in there! X

It's hard, but:

1. Relentless positivity, commentate on what's going well ALL the time. 'Excellent sitting DS!'.

1. Don't offer bribes, it's the wrong way round. When DS complies, THEN give him a sticker/sweet, don't mention it beforehand (this is called positive reinforcement).

1. Decide your red lines and stick to them: short instruction and 'thank you' on the end (assumes compliance).

I'm a secondary teacher and I still have to do this every single lesson to create the right environment for learning.

Ditch the bright parenting voice if you are claiming that he's in danger.

Don't let him ignore you - the option is "get down or I'll get you down". Then take him out of the room and away from temptation.

Punishments don't really work at three I don't think, they're too young to understand anything that's not an immediate consequence.