NMW to increase again next year to £12.21 ph.

It will just mean extra tax being reaped by the government to do with what they do or do not

Perhaps the
If you can’t afford to pay your staff £12ph, you shouldn’t have a business.
crowd should read this and comment on whether the OP should continue her business or retire gracefully.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5199278-to-think-this-budget-will-finish-us-off

I swear to god that some people have zero clue whatsoever about the implications here. The implications for the most vulnerable in our society (who are not on NMW for various reasons including age) are potentially catastophic.

I find it so loaded that people on NMW are looked at as the bottom of the rung. This isn't true.

Tesco pays its employees more than minimum wage. A lot of big supermarkets chains do. They dont pay big wages but I am always surprised when people give them as an example of minimum wage work. As they tend to go for the volunarary real living wage, rather than the slightly lower government one.

They also generally get a very good discount on food.

I think its getting full time hours that's the challenge.

Its worth noting though, that even in countries like Denmark, inequality has been rising. Pre-tax labour income is less evenly distributed there & return on capital is a bigger component on income - eg the highest earners are earning more and the rich are getting richer.

We need change - globally. Stronger trade unions, lower executive pay, parity between taxation of income from employment vs gains on capital.

At the risk of sounding like a complete thicko, how do other countries manage to keep wages higher, (including public sector) and eg subsidised childcare? Presumably they pay more in taxes to fund that but is eg food , going to restaurants etc more expensive. I know Scandinavian countries are often held up as an example but everyone I know who's been to Denmark says how expensive it is to buy a coffee or eat out (but does that cancel out if you live there because your wage is comparatively higher?)

Wealth is spread more evenly. There are fewer extremely wealthy entrepeneurs. Fewer highly paid financial sector workers earning 6 figure bonuses.

Norway also only has a population 1/10th of the uk, with a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund from oil and gas to subsidise their annual budget.

But funnily enough those receiving large salary increases, never affects inflation rates? Same sort of myth as 'trickle down economics' which trickles as far as the wealthy then stops.

Talk about pulling the ladder up.

I think theres plenty of people who are against the NMW rise who don't see it through the lens of people having to 'cut their cloth' for that though!

Its interesting that many posters seem to be blind to the other suggestions and approaches that could be used as an alternative and why peole think that a rise won't actually help the poorest in our society (this will actually hit people on benefits more) because it won't actually tackle the cost of living issues and will just affect inflation rates.

Indeedy - 'I earn 250k but we're struggling' 🙄

MN "100k is nothing now"
Also MN "why do people need more than £12ph, that's plenty"

I'm not sure what you mean by 'So?'
Your claim was that people who earn higher salaries deserve to do so because of qualifications and experience. I just pointed out that many people who earn large salaries are actually bad at their jobs, so perhaps don't deserve their six figure package. They also frequently 'earn' these large amounts on the backs of the people on NMW.

Obviously nothing I say is going to change the minds of folk who think an extra 77p is unjustified and those on NMW just need to cut their cloth etc.

So?

What do you want to do about it?

There's plenty of people on large salaries who may have qualifications but are fairly shite at their jobs - we see it all the time.

It’s obvious why.

There millions of people who can do a
NMV job but few who have the experience and qualifications for a job that pays six figures. Of course they will get the better pay package.

And they will pay a lot more in tax and NI than someone on NMV so why should anyone give any kind of shit about it?

I didn't say it was new information, though it may have been new to the person I responded to.

Were you not trying to diminish my point?

If so, then this implies that you're in favour of accelerating the problem I described.
If not, then I have to wonder why you bothered saying anything at all. Is the grass still green where you are?

That's because companies who pay a lot to attract highly paid staff can afford to do so.

Plenty of businesses cannot afford to do this, and don't do this, and they are the ones who will suffer.

Business 101.

Good point. When top tier company people are hired on ever increasing amounts, with golden handcuff deals and brilliant pension packages, no one gives a shiny shit.
But that one salary every year would probably pay for the nmw increase and ni increase for all the other staff.

Remember that the next time you complain about paying £20 for a plate of pasta/chicken balti/whatever.

There is not really an incentive to train these days tbh - the UK is definitely edging towards communism

If you read my first post you will see that it's only two employees on NMW, but every time they get a pay rise we have to put up everyone else's too in order to maintain the differential which reflects the various skill levels. Our other employees earn up to £46k.
It's the snowball effect, and added to our increased NI contribution it's going to make things tougher.
But you're right, we could just shut up shop and everyone could go on benefits.

To me, if you have skills & experience, you should be more productive and able to earn more.

If an employer is not rewarding your skills & experience, move. If you cannot move, perhaps it is that actually the skills you have are not in demand, and retraining is maybe your best option.

At the risk of sounding like a complete thicko, how do other countries manage to keep wages higher, (including public sector) and eg subsidised childcare? Presumably they pay more in taxes to fund that but is eg food , going to restaurants etc more expensive. I know Scandinavian countries are often held up as an example but everyone I know who's been to Denmark says how expensive it is to buy a coffee or eat out (but does that cancel out if you live there because your wage is comparatively higher?)

I remember when for the first time ever we got a minimum wage in the UK and the difficulties it caused with pay differentials. I would rather the free market prevailed but we are as we are and may be the higher minimum will mean fewer benefits are paid to parents who work I suppose. I would also like there to be fewer people fighting for jobs too but given the UK's record numbers tha tis not likely to happen any time soon.

However even in my profession where most lawyers are not in City firms on high pay, may paralegals will get £23k a year. That is now minimum wage once these changes come in so you do A levels, a 3 year law degree, a one year post grad, take on huge debts, have a 15% student loan charge including post grad loan, have not got a contract to train a law firm so are a pare legal and after all those years of non earnings now you are on the minimum wage.

If we move as a result into an inflationary spiral (which I don't want) the silver lining is that those with large mortgages will find in effect they become much less in real terms because of effects of inflation - that is small comfort to many however.

It really is. It amazes me how ignorant and selfish people can be. As long as they are ok eh!!

So you keep saying. But your condescension continues to shine through. Your utter contempt for those earning low wages is astounding.

The ignorance on this thread is astounding.