NMW to increase again next year to £12.21 ph.

We already have since covid. And an increase in pet breeding. And yet no government funding for rescue centres or far more stringent regulation and taxes on breeders. So Joe Public can look.forward to scraping together more pennies for the poor rescue centres that tug on our heartstrings.

Exactly.
Employers, particularly small businesses, if you don’t pay your staff, a wage enough to live on, rent, council tax, utilities (nurseries, private care homes they pay their staff a pittance, for huge responsibility) the government is then subsidising.
Are people aware, there are more people claiming benefits, who work and some are using food banks.Is this ok! Before someone says, just get a job that has better pay, they’re essential, so who’s going to do them.

He will not be able to pay staff 12 pounds an hour ( plus 12% holiday pay). So if he can't get 18 year olds to apply he is going to close.

Then his pub will go out of business, it is sad for him and the (obviously too few) others who use his pub but unviable businesses can not be propped up by exploitation.

Businesses are not charities, they are run for profit, if that profit drops too low then they go under and if they leave a gap in the market they are replaced.

If they do not then they aren't and we adapt to their loss. The writing's been on the wall for pubs for a while, they just aren't needed or wanted by enough people in the current market.

Personally I like pubs but I understand that they need massive business to keep going, if that business decides it no longer values their product at the price they offer it at then that is just that.

I agree housing needs to be sorted out.

@Batmanisaplaceinturkey I actually can't believe a gov has never scrapped the right to buy.

I think a lot of businesses will go under because they won’t be able to pay their staff a fair wage. Good on Labour. It’s wrong that people can work full time and still need tax credits to help them pay basic bills. I appreciate it will be sad times for some companies but if your are not financially viable then why should the state support you to pay low wages.

@another1bitestheduck If OP comes back and tells us she is in a front-line, essential public service role, I will eat my words. As I said in my post, and to PP since, of course there are all sorts of jobs, including NMW ones, that are very stressful.

Salaries for paramedics and the like should absolutely be higher. But the paramedic will only be on £28k for the first year, no? Then up the scales. NMW jobs have no increments, that’s why the government has to legislate for rises. The paramedic will also have employer pension contributions, sick leave, mat/pay leave and so on. The whole package is worth more than the headline (starting) salary.

But I fundamentally agree with you - many essential jobs are undervalued!

The minimum wage has gone up every year and unemployment has pretty much remained the same. What do you expect them to do? Just leave it at current rates ?

There are so many factors at play here. When I qualified as a nurse 20 odd years ago, I could have bought a house on one wage, such were the house prices then. My Father retired from the Police not long after I qualified. He was earning just a couple of thousand pounds less per year as a Sergeant, than I do now as a band 5 nurse with 20+ years experience. The little house I was looking to buy once I had saved the deposit, has risen from 32k to 250k, my wage in that time frame has increased by 18K to 34K.

Yanbu. Great for minimum wage staff though.

i remember when I got my first promotion, I was on almost double minimum wage (more actually because of the age link). The pay in my promotion job was frozen shortly afterwards and minimum wage caught up. The promotion job now pays minimum wage and they let go of junior staff, distributing the lower paid work amongst the "promoted" staff for no extra pay.

From my viewpoint, promotion pay over and above minimum wage was supposed to cover the extra responsibility. And then it just had extra responsibility and more work for less than the original perceived value i.e. 50%+ more than minimum wage. Had I still been in that role, I would have looked for alternative employment.

As it stands, I've worked another 10 years had 2 more promotions and still earn 50% more than minimum wage. So more responsibility again and again but without actually being proportionately any better off.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the extra money but it makes me wonder where its all going. Especially when my employer always freezes pay at middle management levels to pay for NMW increases (never senior salaries or bonuses.... 🙄)

Closing because of the NMW? Or closing because of other factors affecting the hospitality sector?

Many businesses were financially viable until wages started rising.

I started my business 5 years ago, I was hiring staff at £19k. That same role now is £30k. So I can't afford to hire as many people.

My suppliers have all increased their prices, I used to have £6k a month in costs, it's now £12k per month.

So after I pay all that and work 80 hour weeks, I now take home less than most of my staff, whereas before at least I was a higher rate (although not top rate) tax payer.

If your boss told you to work 80 hour weeks for half the pay because costs had risen, you'd tell them to piss off.

Only the biggest businesses are going to survive this, it will just be people's hobby businesses otherwise, and it's a shame.

Our business helps a lot of people with disabilities and chronic illnesses who get ignored by big businesses, we fight their corner and help them. And we're the only one in our niche who do. It's not always about making the most money when you have a business. But yes I do need to make enough to not lose my home.

That's what he has to do. Employ only 18 year olds - but what happens when he cant get a suitable 18 year old to apply? The businesses that are community assets or are providing essential services (childcare) will have to close.

But of an attitude on this threat ‘oh I don’t begrudge it but…’ and the assumption that min wage jobs aren’t stressful! This is not the case and it’s not a race to the bottom. So what if someone less qualified gets so much, it’s non of your business just get on with it.

All our comments are on something we don't know enough about. We know NMW is going up, but don't know the rest of the context of the budget yet. I'm amazed at the number of people who don't think people on NMW deserve to have an increase. It should also help the treasury either way a drop in UC so the money can be diverted elsewhere in the benefits budget. When we know how much inflation has gone up, why think it's unreasonable for people on the lowest income to never get a pay rise?
Whether you think your salary should be higher relative to the NMW is a different question entirely.

So the care workers will be out of work...

By ‘don’t pay my staff minimum wage’ I assume you mean you pay more - in which case this won’t affect you. And if you can afford to pay them more, so can other businesses.

There isn't much for teens now.

Saturday jobs are rarer than hens' teeth round here

"I was talking to a small business owner a couple of weeks ago. They are struggling to break even atm. Really sucessful business but they have been hit with loads of wage related increases."

Not that successful then is it?

The state already subsidies many employers. Most people on UC are working but the state has to top up their pay with benefits from them to afford to live. This adds more to the benefits bill then so called " benefit scroungers"

As for they really look after their staff and business will go bust. This is the same pitiful arguments made by the mills when unions were set up.

This company is paying people the minimum they can get away with.....

And clearly in their eyes, business owners aren't 'working people'

Prices do not just automatically rise if labour costs increase. Labour is only one of many costs that make up the costs of a business. Perhaps profits will reduce instead? Or efficiencies made? Or businesses will go under and be replaced if they leave a gap in the market? In any case prices can only rise as high as the market and competitors will allow. Unviable businesses are supposed to go under and be replaced in a Capitalist system. It's sad for the individual business owners but they knew what they were getting into and it is vital for the system to function.

Did you miss my point about relief for small businesses?