Reaching out 🥲

I also have a son aged 16 formally diagnosed with ASD, ADHD (and likely PDA).

Primary school was very difficult. He struggled so much with doing any writing at all. (he got a laptop in year 8 which really helped)

We went into lockdown almost as soon as he started secondary, which had its positives as it got him out of an environment that had many good points but with which he struggled a lot in terms of the discipline.

However, although home schooling went well for quite a lot of year 7 and year 8, I figured he really needed to be with peers and put a lot of effort into making sure he engaged back with school (throwing no shade on your choices here, as I can completely understand your concerns about the abuse your child suffered at school)

One thing that was really good about secondary was that he had been in quite a negative bullying type situation at primary, and secondary was in a different area and away from the first lot of kids. That was very powerful for him.

Music has been wonderful for him as it is an outlet and a means of socialising and also a skill that people admire. It has taken him all sorts of places and he met his girlfriend there.

We have also been there with the hair and the toothbrushing and the lack of soap and water (it transpired that he thought he could do without soap when having a bath etc).

Doing activities at school (around the music) where he needed to look a certain way, really encouraged him to get his post lockdown hair cut at about 14. All his peer group told him he looked better with short hair, which reinforced it.

He had wanted to experiment with an emo look, but I eventually pointed out that one of his musical heroes had gone for both short and long hair looks, and he could try out a different style.

It turned out that it was important for him to go to a barber that wasn't for either old people or little kids (!) so we found one of these slightly fashionable places that does erm a dark fade? mostly for teens, twenties, thirties (they usually have a teen rate).

He always got on well with girls, even at primary school, rather better on average than with the boys. Having a girlfriend really helped with the hygiene stuff, cue lots of wet towels all over the bathroom and small crates of lynx for birthdays and Christmas.

I also agree about the dental hygenist - DS sees the dentist 6 monthly and also hygenist 6 monthly since he was 14. it is useful to remove plaque but possibly also more useful to have another adult backing up the need for the tooth brushing etc and telling him how to brush his teeth more effectively. I did get him an electric toothbrush but he won't use it, ditto plaque disclosing tablets. He has no fillings but there is concern that his hygiene needs to improve a lot to prevent them. He has had fluoride paint put on some teeth by our lovely dentist (having a sympathetic dentist is very important). He now tells me he is brushing twice a day. The current aim is to introduce flossing, he has some of those plastic wishbone things to help the flossing along and I have just bought him some xylitol stuff in case that helps any.

Also, are there any support groups for ASD parents and carers round where you are? Ours doesn't require a completed diagnosis, as it takes so long (it took us 2 years for ASD and coming up 5 years for ADHD, still awaiting an appointment to discuss the diagnosis). You will meet lots of lovely caring mums who have been through similar and who understand that It Is Not Your Fault xx

And you also say "he started being like this around the time we began homeschooling him. Around 12 years old."

So the homeschooling didn't actually work, when he's as unhappy as he was in school.

I don't have children. But I have experience of being an unhappy adolescent. Not from bullying or homeschooling, just bored and unhappy at school and bored and unhappy at home with a single mother I didn't get on with.

But this isolated background has made me - and even long before you could have a online 'life' instead - overall quite insular, insecure and avoidant of contact with people IRL. I can empathise with your son and him not wanting to do anything and refusing contact.

I progressed into reading books and having sex, as a means to try to balance the isolation. The latter didn't work, of course.

I don't know what the answer is other than to say to try to make his life bigger and wider. Somehow. Fun. Travel to foreign countries. Lots of kind, warm lovely people around sort of thing. This may shatter the glass walls. The feeling I remember from those years is of enclosure - it sounds as if he needs true freedom, like going to work on a farm in Australia or something and riding horses.

Sorry if this sounds a bit mad.

Cross post about the puppy soz

Best wishes OP.
Just a few suggestions, one of mine hates mint toothpaste, I'm sure you've thought of this already but buy every type you can find and get him to taste and pick the one prefers. Also electric toothbrush with a timer so it turns itself off. Dental hygenists are fabulous and usually gorgeous young ladies. Def worth a try.

Completely random but have you thought of surprising him with a puppy? I know, I know you will probably end up looking after it and he will leave it with you "just for a while" when he moves out ,been there done that, but they need care and attention and time and love and walks! Just a thought.And you can never have too many dogs. ( desperately trying to stop myself buying my 4th - she's a rescue and I feel she needs me😂)

With the internet friends if my youngest is talking to someone online then he needs to have it on speaker so we can hear every word ( his laptop is in the dining room). Otherwise there is no conversation allowed at all. I occasionally hear the odd inappropriate word and yell out"Oi! Language!" that seems to stop them.
Online chat is much harder but you can actually delete it from most games, then he'd have to talk and you can hear.

Oh and I'm not sure where you live but our GP's do "telehealth" . Basically you just book in for a time and they ring you. No need to go anywhere or see anyone. They just chat away, ask about your symptoms etc Very easy. He might like that if he's good on the phone.
That's all I've got sorry. Good luck

@LoveAlways1 If your son likes the idea of having a pet dog OP (understanding that its care will be entirely down to him, of course) this is an excellent idea from @Bakingandcrying . He would have to take it for walks and I can tell you from my own experience, it's impossible to have a dog and not socialise with people in the real world (usually other dog owners/walkers).
Your son may not be depressed or on the autistic spectrum, but he is most definitely in a very deep rut and has developed some very bad habits, but they are just this - habits - and the bad ones can be broken and new ones developed, but there needs to be a catalyst for this when basic reasoning from you and your DH about what's socially acceptable has failed. A dog - if your DS wants one - could well be the answer. It's time for your son to rejoin society and all that entails i.e. presenting his best self to the world.
Incidentally, there is a proven link between poor oral hygiene and heart disease and people with gum disease have two to three times the risk of having a heart attack, stroke, or other serious cardiovascular event. You say home-schooling has gone well, which suggests your son isn't unintelligent, so maybe you could share with him the various studies (you can search for them online easily enough) which show the self-harm he's doing by not brushing his teeth - appealing to his intellect may work.

Hi OP!
I really liked the psychologist’s post and hope you ignore the unhelpful comments. My son is also 16, doing online school since September, with very long hair and poor hygiene. I could have written much of your post to be honest! He is a very bright and social autistic teen. In fact his best friend (also autistic) also has waist length hair (but better hygiene, and a bit older at 18). I understand how challenging it is. And I know the tough love suggestion would just make everything worse. The autism groups and forums have been helpful in my situation, as hygiene comes up ALOT. In my son case, he gets overwhelmed with all the steps involved in washing hair, showering, etc. He also had sensory issues with toothpaste.
I also have a 21 year old autistic son whose hygiene is much better but it’s not something he enjoys doing. We encourage him to go out as much as possible, as he will have a good scrub before going out. He hates hair getting in his eyes so prefers short hair.
You are not alone 😊

And how do you propose enforcing this @MrsSunshine2b ? It’s all well and good saying parents need to take action but how does that work in practice?

If he loves singing can you take him to some live music, a musical or a local theatre production? Does he play any instruments? Would he be open to joining a relaxed choir? If he loves cats then maybe he could volunteer at the local cat rescue? Do a course in animal management? If he loves gaming maybe you could take him to something like comic con or other gaming meet ups and he could meet his friends in real life. If he's going out and about he'll be motivated to maintain his personal hygiene and this will help his confidence. Buying an electric tooth brush sometimes helps and you can tooth paste with no flavour.

As ASD is on the cards, I want to mention that introducing "new" things—whether expectations/rules, routines/habits or even a new toothpaste brand—takes a lot of time and perseverance. If he says "no" or won't engage with something the first time, keep trying for several days. Not continuously. (Don't nag.) But reiterate it every day, in different words, until he gets used to the idea. (This won't work if it's a different ND e.g. ADHD, PDA, ODD, etc. But ASD goes with structured routines - and habits/routines take time to establish... and are a pita to break. Even if you're NT, a new habit can take up to a month to establish!)

A lot of homeschoolers take the 14-16 college route, but there'll likely still be a reasonable cohort at 16+ if college appeals to him. A second setting (other than "home") will help with a diagnosis pathway too. In the meantime, I hope you are engaging with your local HE community even if your kid isn't. I reckon coffee and a chat with local HE moms IRL would help you brainstorm lots of ideas. (Get thee to FB if you aren't already on there.) x

I should probably also add that my Son loves to talk in an American or Glaswegian accent (He's very good at them - He can also do a very good French accent). But then My brother loved to talk in a Belfast accent and he's neurotypical (But I think he did it to wind our Mum up - it was before the Good Friday Agreement and she though everyone with an Irish accent was a terrorist). I also encouraged him to do it because I like the accent

I think two things might make him change.
He gets a partner. He will be in the bathroom for ages then.
Somebody outside the house tells him he smells or something.
His teeth must be in an awful state. He will create much longer term problems for himself if he dosent get into a good teeth cleaning routine.

He sounds very similar to my Son (Who is autistic and has combined type ADHD). He struggled with school from about the age of 8. Mostly managed primary school, but hated secondary. Limped through his GCSEs on about 60% attendance (we are not in a position to home school) and went to a small independent school for A levels. Did absolutely no work, but because he is naturally clever, passed three A levels and has a place in University for September 2025.Currrently, we don't think he will manage University, but he isn't medicated for his ADHD yet - we have only just had the diagnosis.

He almost never cleans his teeth, we have had several rows off the dentist and orthodontist about this over the years (We have sweated blood and cried tears trying to get him to do this and I have probably bought every toothbrush known to man - no dice). Currently, he sees a dental hygienist every 3 months and this is probably what stops his teeth rotting. He never shaves (but does like to have his hair cut - I think he just can't stand the feel of hair around his neck and in his face). He does shower, but I think he likes the feel of the warm water and also loves to sing in the shower (He's a very good singer), but he will only use certain showers. He has hardly left the house since he finished his A levels and then usually only because we make him. He eats only beige food.

He is taking a gap year to supposedly get a job (to improve his personal and executive functioning skills) and to learn to drive. He has done nothing and is happy to sleep for 12 hours a day! We have written a CV for him and applied for a few jobs on his behalf. He has passed his driving theory but doesn't seem in a hurry to get any driving lessons.

Having said that, he is the most lovely human being. He has an amazing sense of humour and an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of reptiles/birds of prey/musicals. He loves musical theatre and is quite an accomplished performer (Singing/musical theatre are the only things he will leave the house for!).

He was diagnosed late and I would love for him to flourish during his gap year and manage his degree

Talking in an American accent can be a sign of autism. My husband and I both teach and we have seen autistic students do this. I'm not sure why.

To me it looks like your son has fallen into what is for him a very comfortable lifestyle without much routine. Without the structures of school or work it has become easy to not bother with what most of us would consider 'normal'. He might be neurodivergent, he might just be a lazy teen. I also wonder if he is struggling with his identity, sexuality or anything like that?

I think a college course would be really beneficial to him if would be open to this. Or maybe a part time job? I do understand how hard this all must be, but I also agree that tough love may end up being the only answer. I say this because I have a family member who has been allowed to avoid anything he finds uncomfortable, dropped out of school, quite jobs etc. He is now in his 30s, still at home, no qualifications, no job, no friends, never had a relationship and when his parents eventually pass away he will likely become homeless. Everyone has been too scared to force anything in him incase his mental health becomes worse, but the end result is he has no life and no means to support himself.

It is a good thing that you are questioning his lifestyle as it definitely is not ok. It's good that you want to address this. You clearly love him very much and are trying to do the right thing for him.

Neurodivergence can be really hard to recognise, when you are high functioning and undiagnosed yourself, and likely your partner may be the same. Your child and the way the interact socially with others seems totally normal because it's your normal. Or you see it as their normal, therefore normal.

I think taking into account he is 16, taking no interest in personal hygiene and not responding to tough love is a sign your son is an outlier to the norm.

I am late diagnosed ADHD, when things get tough for me, showering and teeth brushing are things I struggle with. I also struggled to enforce my kids to have good habits because habits are so hard for me anyway. At 15, my older son now realises the importance of personal hygiene and I don't need to remind him to shower at all.

For his teeth, could you look at incorporating xylitol gum after meals, as that may be easier for him than brushing? Just read up on it because there is supposed to be an optimum amount of time you chew the gum to generate the right amount of the protective saliva, and an optimum number of grams per day.

The only advice I would give you, OP, is to get your boy assessed for ASD/Neurodivergence now, whilst he is still under 18. Right now is the only time in your life where you can override his wants and his dislikes and insist, because you are his parent and he is a minor.

He may well end up going to college and if he does so without a formal diagnosis he will miss out on all the extra help and support that he will need and which could massively benefit him. Even if it is just that his quirks are understood and tolerated rather than becoming disciplinary issues.

He is going to be an adult very, very soon. Once he is 18 he can carry on saying No to everything and no-one, not you, not his Uni, not anyone can make him, even when it is for his own benefit - for example he can neglect his teeth and lose them all. But it is more than that - he can lose his job because he smells and speaks in an American accent even if he does the actual job incredibly well, and there is no legal right to 'reasonable adjustment' if he has no diagnosis. He can refuse his whole life to get a diagnosis and he can refuse his whole life to get any help...

This is what happened to a young relative of mine because his parents thought that a diagnosis would be putting a label on their perfectly healthy but quirky son and that the label would be defining and limiting. They simply did not understand - I think personally, that paradoxically it was because they were afraid for him - that they were condemning their son to a lifetime of struggle with no support. And god knows, the support for the Neurodivergent is little enough even with a diagnosis.

This is a fantastic video by a young lad of 18 explaining what his PDA is like. What is so striking is the degree of intelligent insight he has into himself and his PDA self, and yet, he cannot change anything about how he is. This is I think, a real eye-opener into how truly disabling ASD is to the person who has it. We only see the effects and results of what is a profound difficulty for them.

I am in my 50s and only just starting to realise I am autistic after a lifetime of masking. All the comments about autism may not be any help as everyone is different. I also have anxiety and MH illnesses and have suffered from depression, I’m not sure how you can honestly tell if your son is or is not depressed tbh as until I had a breakdown I think I would have been put in the category of happy chatty person….once again I was masking and noone had a clue. But autism and mental health illnesses can be different for everyone and different depending upon your gender as well.

I do think a chat with a gp would be a good thing, but you mentioned he saw one three days ago so the gp would have seen the lack of cleanliness already? Just take him along for an annual checkup or something? Also a psychologist/therapy could possibly help to try to understand if there is an underlying problem that he’s not told you about. I suffered a sexual assault as a teenager and yeah putting on weight, not as nice clothes, etc can also be linked to that as you are trying to protect yourself.

So it could be a combination of any of these things or he could just be being a typical teenager. Boys started getting clean suddenly when they mix more with their peers or if they like someone. Maybe your son is still at that stage as he’s not mixing with peers in the real world.

I think trying to get your son to go out more, in any way doing anything, would be great. The fact that he’s interested in college is also brilliant.

Also might not be any help but start asking him which shower gel he likes or which bubble bath. And so on. And then start buying ones he likes. If he doesn’t know take him out shopping to choose some, also gets him out of the house. I’m not good with many fragrances or smells (or strong noises or lights) so I pick things which are lightly fragranced myself, some of the stuff the members of my family use are so strong I find it overwhelming and leave the room. Also get different toothpastes, I’ve just used a mint one that’s stronger than normal for me and an hour later I’m still feeling sick tbh. But there are a lot on the market that aren’t mint and I recently used a sensodyne toothpaste that was a herbal one, much better for me. It’s possible these things may also be hoe your son feels.

I hope your sons life starts improving x

I think homeschooling is causing him to be isolated and therefore depressed. I work from home sometimes and it really is isolating and depressing for me. I need to meet people on real life and I suspect most people do including him. Socialising will make him want to fit in. I would look hard at 6th form options and at least encourage socialising outside the home including sports and group activities.

I used to speak in an American accent because I watched a lot of US TV when I was younger. Especially at times when I was in the same social situations that I saw in the programmes. All my friends did the same at some point. Your accent doesn't become fixed until 19 I think.

There is a balance here. 16 is usually a time developmentally where you do rebel against your parents world to fit in with a different social crowd. Considering he seems to be very compliant with your wishes, is this is way of setting a standard and asserting himself.

He isn't massively social, so I guess in his mind there is no actual reason to wash. My brother was like this for a while, because he couldn't smell himself. We all told him, but it was when his friends said something that he listened.

I agree with people saying to send him to college. He has to learn to be independent at some point and this will really help him.

Sorry if you've already answered this but is your son able to tell you why he doesn't want to brush his teeth, shower, look after his nails and hair? Most of us do these things because we understand they are important for health and make us feel good. Does he keep his room clean and tidy/let you into his room?

You mentioned a college prospectus. Have you talked about what he wants to do in the future? What would be his ideal job? From that you might be able to help him plan how he will get there. He loves singing, does he like performing, would he like to go to concerts/theatre? He likes online gaming, would he like to go to conventions, study gaming, study computing?

OP, hopefully what I’m about to say won’t ever be relevant to you, but the combination of:

• isolation
• no real-life interactions with peers
• ordinary physical puberty
• having suffered series of assaults, some sexual
• extensive unfettered internet use

strikes me as a recipe for being a victim of online sexual abuse, or (God forbid) becoming a perpetrator because those ordinary teenage hormones, desire and early sexual feelings have nowhere to go when he’s at home with just his mum and dad and it could all get very confused for him. I really think you need to pay close attention to what he’s doing online and try to get him back out in the world as soon as possible, in a gradual and affirming / reassuring way.

There’s a company called ieso - some nhs trusts you can self refer, some you need to get a doctor to refer. But it’s online and they’re really great. Well worth looking into.

My son is 27 now and believe me we had the smelly, lazy teenage years. He soon started showering everyday when girls would show up.

I understand this is completely different for your son. I personally have PDA as part of my autism and now I have a disability and rarely leave the house, I must admit my hygiene isn't the best. The thought of having a shower seems such hard work... I do have professionals keeping an eye on me, and I'll shower if Im seeing someone or going out somewhere - usually family, always accompanied.

Anyway, enough about me being minging. I would skip the GP at this point and go straight to Children's Services (Social Services). In my case they're actually very supportive people. Very knowledgeable and can give you support as well as your son.
Definitely make it a mission to go out every day. He sounds lovely with his singing etc. Does he like nature? A walk somewhere quiet with just the birds and the trees...
Keep on with looking at colleges. There's nothing to stop you just going to look at one and have a wander in the public spaces rather than a stressful timed appointment.
There is CAMHS but as my GP told me regarding my now 15 year old daughter - she'd probably be in Uni by the time they saw her, so we use the pastoral support at school. That's going well.

Unfortunately you don't have that access, so I really do recommend reaching out to Child Services for support for your son and maybe gaining a better understanding for you both as parents.

Tricky time! No shame in asking for help in navigating it.

Worth considering, yes. But some people here seem to be pretty convinced and a little tunnel visioned about it to the exclusion of other information provided.

Saying something is worth considering is not diagnosing someone @CrazyGoatLady

Hi OP,

I'm ASD and I've been reading through all your posts and pondering. My son is homeschooled too.

One of the things that strikes me is that if I think way back 40-odd years, I actually went through a period of not brusing my teeth or hair at all too. I was quite scruffy and my friends made fun of me at school, but I still carried on the same.

The lack of self-care wasn't because I was depressed or anything. I just really really couldn't cope with the pain of the toothbrushing and hair brushing. It really really hurt a lot.

With the teeth it was because mint toothpaste burned my gums really badly. I did once get lemon toothpaste which was find and I liked it. Unfortunately it was expensive and my Mum thought I only liked it for the free toy, so refused to buy it again. I didn't dare tell her that I couldn't use the mint stuff at all. The pain stopped when I was 14 and then I started brushing my teeth every day.

The hair thing was harder. My hair got really tangly and it hurt to brush it. I also struggled with washing because the soap got in my eyes. It was a bit easier after we got a shower and then I could make sure the soap went down the back.

I think if I could have had short hair like a boy, it would have been easier.

My son struggles with hair washing very much, and I think the water sort of burns the top of his head and his face. We have to try very very hard to make the process comfortable for him and the same with hair cutting.

We got very good hair clippers that are almost silent and he is kind of okay with that, but only just.

You can also buy really good sharp hair cutting scissors from Boots that are silent, but you have to be really careful with them.

Is that any help at all? Basically the idea is that you need to assume that these self-care things are actually painful, and work out how to reduce the pain. That's an ASD thing.

Good luck there. I'm sorry things are hard. You and your DH sound lovely. Your son sounds wonderful too.