Reaching out 🥲

He sounds like my DD. She's 13, autistic with pda traits and when shes struggling she can't even tolerate the demands to eat a meal or have a bath etc....
I'm not saying your son has the same issues, there are many paths that can lead a child to a state if overwhelm that has this same outcome.
However i think you should definitely look up pda. Children with pda don't demonstrate many of the more typical characteristics of autism, it took until starting secondary school to actually realise that with my DD (although her primary head has since told me she isn't surprised to hear she's autistic so maybe she saw something before I did)
And I work with early years children and have a reasonable understanding of SEN, so its definitely possible to not realise with your own child!!!

You drip fed that he is homeschooled. He doesnt have peers to compare himself to. He needs a reason , at his age, to take care of himself. Youve chosen this life for him but ypu clearly havent replicated the level of peer interaction he would be getting at school. Nor does he have the self esteem or impetus to just do it for himself. Something has been very lost in the homeschooling set up

Hi @LoveAlways1 from everything you have described it definitely sounds like your son is autistic (not wanting to socialise despite not being depressed, consequences not working, not washing, even the choosing to talk in a different accent is very typical. It is easy to mask in intelligent young people).

I hear what you are saying about how he probably wouldn’t want to be assessed. This is very common (I work in this area).

I think it might be worth reaching out to your local autism organisation to seek advice. There might be support groups you could join with other parents with similar teens and you wouldn’t necessarily need a diagnosis for this.

Also, try to see if your local early help team offers NVR for internalising behaviours. This approach could be really useful in helping him. Best of luck.

'Drag him out' yup that will work. Another clueless poster

Are your preteens autistic ??

Hi op,

I can hear your fears. It is difficult.

I would bounce on something he likes? So maybe an outing that relates to his game? Or show that he loves? There are comics shop and special editions…
whatever he likes, juat get into it and find something outside that you can pay something for him.

Does he never ever ask about having nothing? These are your tools I would have said…

Keep us posted! You are NOT alone.

🌺

Literally took words out of my mouth. My son wasn't quite like this but some of the boys like him were/are. We found out when he was about 17 he has a genetic disorder which can lead to ASD/ADHD issues and also extreme lack of motivation and energy for every day tasks. This disorder is thought to affect 1 in 500 to 600 males but not all have any visible or psychological symptoms.

Tough one.
My first thought was also ND.
I don't have any new ideas, sorry, but wish you all the best in helping your son move through this stage.

my daughter who is nurodivergent was like this , then all of a sudden she came out of it and brushes her teeth and looks after herself

I didn't think my daughter had ASD either. She was a "normal" child and also communicated very well, and still does. She did have some quirks that I assumed were just part of her character but I was adamant that there was no neurodivergence.

My daughter was formally diagnosed when she was 28, two years ago. It was all rather an epiphany for me because it turns out I'm ND too (no surprise really when you learn it's usually hereditary) which explains why I missed the early signs and considered them "normal"!

I agree with a lot of other PP that it's very possible your son is ND. I'm sure you're aware that everybody presents differently (hence autism being referred to as a spectrum disorder) so whilst you may think you're familiar with autism because you've met several autistic people you're actually only familiar with those individuals.

I also agree that maybe homeschooling has contributed, at least in part, to the issues he's now having.

As well as pursuing an ND diagnosis there is lots of advice in this thread to follow (@Twistybranch has made some very good points) Good luck!

Thanks @CrazyGoatLady.

The older I’ve got the more I realise how important it is to have terms precisely defined when you’re discussing something. Otherwise people end up talking at cross purposes, even arguing about things when they’ve actually pretty much on the same page but simply misunderstanding what the other means.

As an example, I read a thread on MN recently that got quite heated all because of a difference in understanding of the term ‘Brits’. Some posters included those people who identified as British in Northern Ireland in that term. Others - who were, interestingly, mostly people in NI themselves, both British and Irish - didn’t. But as nobody knew of the different definition that the person they were talking to was using, the discussion was full of confusion and misunderstandings for a while. Accusations of not knowing any history were thrown about etc etc😅

If one person is using the terms neurodiverse or neurodiversity to refer to variations in brains/the differences in how people’s brains work, while someone else is using it to mean solely to those who are neurodivergent, well, you can see how misunderstandings can arise. So thanks for drawing attention to that.

Absolutely no wonder people are confused!

The terms have become conflated more and more as people/organisations have jumped on the neurodiversity bandwagon. There's any number of "neurodiversity advocates" and "neurodiversity coaches" out there now, some of whom have l, shall we say, more grounding in what all of this means than others!

I've been at this a while now, before it was trending 😂 so I go by the original definitions as set out by Judy Singer, Harvey Blume et al (who wrote originally about Neurodiversity as a concept, the normalisation of the differences between all human brains) and Kassiane Asasumasu, who coined the term "neurodivergent" because they felt "neurodiversity/neurodiverse" didn't accurately describe or capture the experiences of those whose neurology was more different from expected norms/those who are more vulnerable to discrimination because of said differences.

I realise I am probably "old school" in sticking to the terms being distinct and not interchangeable - but also, I'm autistic and language accuracy and precision is important, if someone says "neurodiverse" it can be hard to know what they are actually referring to or mean.

Your explanation of neurodiversity vs neurodivergence is interesting, thank you. I think I’ve been using the incorrect terminology too.

However, could it be one of those times where the incorrect term (in this case neurodiverse) is so widely used it has come to mean something else (in this case neurodivergent), in common parlance at least?

I just looked up the dictionary definition of neurodiverse and this is what Merriam-Webster defines the term as:
“having or relating to brain function that is not neurotypical”.
But, if I’ve understood you correctly, that’s actually neurodivergent in the terminology you outlined @CrazyGoatLady.

It’s no wonder people are confused 🤔

Deviation from the norm = neurodivergent, not neurodiverse. Neurodiversity is an umbrella term that does indeed apply to everyone, but the neurodivergent umbrella includes the conditions you mention. But a lot of people don't get that right. Maybe the terms are just too similar and that's why people get confused. Even clin psychs.

(I'm an autistic ex ed psych and specialise in clinical ed in this area so I do know what I'm talking about).

I agree with you about trauma and the possibility of overlap and that OP would be best advised to have a proper assessment, nobody on the internet can or should be trying to draw certain conclusions from the info given.

Autism, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc can all be assessed and diagnosed and are what I’m referring to under the umbrella term of neurodiversity.

We are not all neurodiverse, that defeats the purpose of what it even is - deviation from the norm. Which is exactly what the tests measure. I will not be de-railing this thread by further discussion, especially as no one on this forum can diagnose OPs son over the internet. He may be neurodiverse but he has also experienced significant trauma, symptoms of which can overlap with autism - so it is not straight forward. I hope OP and her son get the help needed.

Then you would surely know that "neurodiversity" can't be diagnosed. It's a term that describes the diversity of all human minds, not a medical diagnosis. There is no assessment for neurodiversity because we are all neurodiverse!

Yep, don't doubt it.

@Outnumberedmummy2022 i am sorry I misinterpreted the comment.

Again - I was referring to the you like to appear different/cool comment.
unnecessary and bitchy

I’ve lived in Scotland for almost 40 years and only ever heard people say they are “Celtic” if they mean they support the football team.
Previous posters comment was not bitchy at all.

It's unfortunate he's been isolated for so long from his peer group. In my experience, they soon get into the shower when their friends tell them they stink. He now apparently, has missed his opportunity to make those early social links and doesn't know now to function adequately in a world that is now strange to him. Your family should seek professional help. This situation is not good and requires intervention from someone outside your family.

The guitar, a keyboard , the trumpet. Heaps of online lessons. Yes I know he has cats, dogs are different beings. x

I would focus on getting him back into education. Have you discussed with him what the plan would be after 16? I assume he has just taken GCSEs I don't know whether it would be too late to start at a college this school year. He sounds a lovely boy but he needs to be around people his own age.

They have cats. He loves them. He doesn't need a dog. Read the thread.